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Authentic Weiderholungspange?

Article about: Firstly, I hope I have spelled the item correctly in the title, I did it from memory as I'm too lazy to move the mouse onto a new tab! Will be pleased to have your opinions on this here span

  1. #1

    Default Authentic Weiderholungspange?

    Firstly, I hope I have spelled the item correctly in the title, I did it from memory as I'm too lazy to move the mouse onto a new tab!

    Will be pleased to have your opinions on this here spange for the Iron Cross. I have never owned one and apart from looking around and finding out that there is a first pattern and a second pattern, my knowledge is nil.

    Images are not mine, blatantly ripped from dealers site.

    Thanks, Jamie

    Authentic Weiderholungspange?

    Authentic Weiderholungspange?

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  3. #2

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    Hi Jamie,

    Well, as you say there are 1st and 2nd types so this is a 2nd type.

    I stand to be corredted as I don't claim to be expert but am thinking from what I can see in these less than perfect images, of Eugen Schmidhausser of Pforzheim (PK Nr 28 no LDO licence).

    However, this one has lost most of it's finish and although it is likely the pictures the colour of the base metal seems a bit red suggesting a higher proportion of copper than I would expect to see. Tombak or brass of course has copper in it but too much makes the alloy softer which is not a good sign if that is the case.

    On balance though I think it is authentic but better images would help. Personally I wouldn't bother with this one unless it particularly appeals for other reasons.
    The EKI spange whilst not the cheapest of TR awards certainly isn't the most rare and an example with much more finish yet good patina will not be hard to find.

    I hope this helps

    Regards

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  4. #3

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    Thanks Mark

    It was the price that appealed mostly!!

    However, the points you make are valid to me as if I did buy it I would probably end up regretting it as 5 minutes later I'd find another in better condition.

    Buy cheap buy twice!

    Thank you

  5. #4
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    Quote by Watchdog View Post
    Hi Jamie,

    Well, as you say there are 1st and 2nd types so this is a 2nd type.

    I stand to be corredted as I don't claim to be expert but am thinking from what I can see in these less than perfect images, of Eugen Schmidhausser of Pforzheim (PK Nr 28 no LDO licence).

    However, this one has lost most of it's finish and although it is likely the pictures the colour of the base metal seems a bit red suggesting a higher proportion of copper than I would expect to see. Tombak or brass of course has copper in it but too much makes the alloy softer which is not a good sign if that is the case.

    On balance though I think it is authentic but better images would help. Personally I wouldn't bother with this one unless it particularly appeals for other reasons.
    The EKI spange whilst not the cheapest of TR awards certainly isn't the most rare and an example with much more finish yet good patina will not be hard to find.

    I hope this helps

    Regards

    Mark
    This is not a Schimhausser and I cannot find a match with any that I have, I have no idea who the maker is or whether it is real. Jim

  6. #5

    Default

    Quote by CMSgt View Post
    This is not a Schimhausser and I cannot find a match with any that I have, I have no idea who the maker is or whether it is real. Jim
    As I said, I stand to be corrected but it would be helpful if you were to explain why you don't believe this is by Schmidhausser (correct spelling) if in fact it is authentic when you do say you have no idea of maker or authenticity. I also pointed to a couple of potential issues depending on how accurate the pics are and made clear that I do not claim expertise as far as EK spangen are concerned.

    It is easy to just say "No it isn't" but not so easy to say "why it isn't"

    Like the OP I am keen to learn as are many here so teach me

    Regards

    Mark

    PS I know the OP closed the thread this morning (I have asked him) so I am just wondering how it is open again?
    Last edited by Watchdog; 09-01-2017 at 10:34 AM.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  7. #6
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    The date is wrong, head, and when looking at it from the back the knee joints are wrong and catch. Jim
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Authentic Weiderholungspange?   Authentic Weiderholungspange?  


  8. #7

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    Quote by Watchdog View Post

    PS I know the OP closed the thread this mornig (I have asked him) so I am just wondering how it is open again?
    That would be me.
    Jim brought this to my attention and because I agree with him that this is not an Eugen Schmidhäußler, (correct spelling), I re-opened it.
    It is one I am not familiar with. To me it appears to have some Meybauer features but it also has some Wernstein things about it.
    I felt that it would be beneficial to determine what this one is. Not saying it is real, not saying it is fake.
    Ralph.
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  9. #8

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    I've learned more in these 6 posts than I probably could reading a book, so thank you.

    I closed the thread as after Mark rightly said, there are many others out their that are in better condition.

    It is priced at £145 and that is what drew my attention foremost, me being Scottish and all ha ha

    Jamie

  10. #9

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    Haha, thanks Ralph the re-opening had me thinking I was losing the plot there! You got me on the spelling too, looks like I dropped the "l" in my haste. I mostly double check my posts for spelling

    For me I don't think this is either Maybauer or Wernstein but when I look at it again I see the points of difference cited by Jim. In particular I recognise that the beak is far too curved. As for the catch, I did consider that but Schmidhaussler spangen do appear with both flat and round wire catches I believe and I have learned over the years that such a difference in hardware is not always a deal breaker. I also considered the recognised unknown makers and couldn't see enough to pin it to any one of them.

    From the appearance in these pics I lean towards it being genuine but I know that isn't enough. If I had a particular concern about it it was that the base metal looks very "copper rich" which is not the norm to say the least. However, that could be the colour balance of the photograph.
    In the end I think Jamie is right to pass this one, not because it is an obvious fake but because attribution is not shown. Also, for me anyway, the lack of finish is a detractor.

    This is the kind of debate and discussion I really enjoy and wish it was more common as oppsed to "yes it is" or "no it isn't" statements. We have a maxim at work that alsoserves collectors well;

    "Believe no-one, question everything, look everywhere"

    I suppose the jury is still out on this one.

    Thanks guys.

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

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