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EK1, any chance of id from poor picture?

Article about: I now it's a really bad picture, am trying to get the higher res shots. Can any one tell if it's real? the guy received it as a present and has no idea himself and wouldn't like to ask the g

  1. #11
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    Default Re: EK1, any chance of id from poor picture?

    Hey Stefan

    Its a souval cross, but wether its post war or not is the question. Souval made eks after the war also so its quite hard in some cases to say if it is or is not? if you get me, so as Adrian said its up to the individual i guess. hope this helps

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  3. #12

    Default Re: EK1, any chance of id from poor picture?

    So it seems the question is just whether it's manufactured between the war period or post?

    I suppose there is a cut off date/year for swastika based crosses i.e. before 1957, or is that it? Either way it is a genuine Souval cross.

  4. #13
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    Default Re: EK1, any chance of id from poor picture?

    It is a Souval cross, of that there is no question.

    The only thing with Souval products is trying to determine if they were made or assembled before or after May 1945. As Souval was an Austrian based company (Vienna) the rules over the banning of the swastika post 1945 did not apply.
    Souval obviously had stock left over and his production facilities were unaffected by the hostilities so he continued to produce his goods after the end of the war. Be it the assembly of his stock or new production. This is a well documented fact.

    A question: if the frames and core of an EK were produced before May 1945 but not actually assembled until the September of that year, would the cross be a wartime made piece or not?
    We likely will never know as there is no way we can tell.

    The cross in post #1 bears the features of Souval so we know it was made by his factory. The sloppiness of finish to my mind would point to an unregulated production point which would be after the war where he wasn't governed by the LDO licence and regulations.

    Again, if someone wants to believe the cross was made before May 1945 then so be it, there really is no way to tell, just as no-one can tell if it was made after that date.

    The cross in this thread just wouldn't be for me based upon my observations and gut feeling. Someone else might feel differently and be happy with it and no-one else can say otherwise. Each piece from Souval should be judged on it's own merits and will be down to the person spending the money.

  5. #14

    Default Re: EK1, any chance of id from poor picture?

    the guys are correct, of course, that this is a Souval.

    and, of course, it comes down to wartime or postwar manufacture.

    Rory's example shows a die flaw on the 12 o'clock arm that some believe is an indicator of wartime manufacture.

    your pictures are not good enough for me to see whether that particular flaw is present in your example.

    either way, i am not one that subscribes definitively to some set of indicators that guarantees pre or post 1945 manufacture. it's just not something i've seen solid enough evidence on personally to feel in the position to date these things.

  6. #15

    Default Re: EK1, any chance of id from poor picture?

    by the way, i would say that were i to buy a Souval cross, i would look at this example as perhaps having a better than average chance of post war manufacture based on the same feelings that Adrian has expressed. this one seems to either have been manufactured in an environment of lower quality control or, at the very least, slipped through a more rigorous QC standard. so not a definitive "tell", but i am only in the position to go by feeling here.

  7. #16

    Default Re: EK1, any chance of id from poor picture?

    Thanks for that fellas, I have been told, contrary to what i mentioned earlier, that it doesn't have a magnetic centre, my mistake but probably makes no difference or is that an even bigger indication?

  8. #17
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    Default Re: EK1, any chance of id from poor picture?

    I'm not aware of any guidelines regarding a magnetic or non magnetic core being an indicator of when a cross was made.

    Regarding the die flaw on the twelve o'clock arm, if Souval continued to use the same dies after the end of the war, the flaw would still be there. The flaw should be used to identify the maker, not when the cross was made. When Souval changed his dies, the flaw obviously disappeared.

    I have an L/58 marked EK2 which some believe to be post war made and others believe to be wartime. The flaw is present but very faint which to me indicates an early manufacture as the flaw would get progessively worse over time.

  9. #18

    Default Re: EK1, any chance of id from poor picture?

    yes, like i said, i don't adhere to this as anything worth making a call from.

    i have heard individuals say they believe this has value and thought i would mention it.

    but again, people just say things. those things are pretty much worthless without references.

  10. #19

    Default Re: EK1, any chance of id from poor picture?

    Hi Fellas

    Yes it's seems quite conclusive that it's post war.

    The flaw is there on the top, left hand arm, but it also has the dipping 3, common on post war Souvals and the sloppy soldering on the reverse which as mentioned, would not have passed LDO criteria.

    I also read with interest that Souval made crosses well into the 60/70s.

  11. #20

    Default Re: EK1, any chance of id from poor picture?

    Having been directed here by myself to show my findings the seller has now put the price up by another 15 even after I offered to buy it at the original price.

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