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EK2 Souval with 'female' ribbon ?

Article about: Just picked up the Souval because I love the ribbon set up! Maybe post war ? Maybe worn by a widow? Who knows.. but its quirky Nick

  1. #21

    Default Re: EK2 Souval with 'female' ribbon ?

    Nick
    A beautiful arrangement! No reason to believe it to be post war Much of the world rejoiced at the end of the war but all moms suffered.

    Mark
    Last edited by Greenhorn; 03-26-2013 at 03:36 PM. Reason: never ending typos!

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: EK2 Souval with 'female' ribbon ?

    Lovely cross

  4. #23

    Default Re: EK2 Souval with 'female' ribbon ?

    Quote by Adrian View Post
    Here are some 'Ladies' EK2 arrangements from my collection.......
    Was is that for a "Brosche" on the ribbon at the first shown cross Adrian.The "ladies" crosses of WW1 are very special!

  5. #24
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    Default Re: EK2 Souval with 'female' ribbon ?

    Quote by Kradmelder View Post
    Was is that for a "Brosche" on the ribbon at the first shown cross Adrian.The "ladies" crosses of WW1 are very special!
    Hi Joachim, the cross with the silver monogram has been posted before, you can see it here.

    It has a button attachment and the was a small piece of elastic which could also have been used to fasten it through a buttonhole should the size of the buttonhole prevent it from being held securely.

    I would love to find out more about these crosses and their ribbons, was there a precedent whereby a Widow or Mother could wear the fallen soldier's EK?

  6. #25

    Default Re: EK2 Souval with 'female' ribbon ?

    Thank you Adrian for the link and input.It is good possible,that widows or mothers made this.I have no exactly informations about it!But it is really a interesting collecting field.

  7. #26

    Default Re: EK2 Souval with 'female' ribbon ?

    Quote by Adrian View Post

    I would love to find out more about these crosses and their ribbons, was there a precedent whereby a Widow or Mother could wear the fallen soldier's EK?
    No. An official award or decoration could only be worn by those actually bestowed with it. Its wear by anybody else - for whatever reason - would have been punishable by law.

  8. #27
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    Default Re: EK2 Souval with 'female' ribbon ?

    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    No. An official award or decoration could only be worn by those actually bestowed with it. Its wear by anybody else - for whatever reason - would have been punishable by law.
    Thanks Andreas......... which makes it all the more interesting where these bows originated from and for what reason.

    In the UK, it is possible for a family member to wear their fallen husband's, father's, brother's medals but on the right hand side side.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #28

    Default Re: EK2 Souval with 'female' ribbon ?

    Quote by Adrian View Post
    Thanks Andreas......... which makes it all the more interesting where these bows originated from and for what reason.

    In the UK, it is possible for a family member to wear their fallen husband's, father's, brother's medals but on the right hand side side.
    Thanks for these images, Adrian; I must admit I had not even been aware of this UK tradition.

    (By the way: Google-ing for more information on that practice, I found that this is not permitted in Canada:
    Remembrance Day: Widow risks arrest by wearing husband’s medals | News | National Post )

    Anyway, this would not have been allowed in Third Reich Germany.

    The nature and origin of the WW2-era EKIIs on ribbon bows is indeed an interesting riddle. While the existing examples are rare, they are not nearly rare enough to suggest that all of them could be directly attributed to one of the 29 known female recipients.

    On the other hand - even if we allow for a number of unknown awardees - the extremely low number of female recipients of the 1939 EKII seems to make it unlikely that substantial numbers of crosses readily-mounted on ribbon bows for female wear were manufactured and kept in store for future needs.

    One theory: Perhaps these were actually worn by some male recipients with civilian dress as an alternative to the standard medal bar?

    Yes; I know it sounds odd, and it would have certainly been an uncommon practice, but I clearly remember having seen at least one Imperial-era photograph showing an elderly man wearing a medal on a ribbon bow.

    Interestingly, the chapter on the wearing of medals and decorations from Dr. Doehle's "Die Auszeichnungen des Großdeutschen Reiches" includes this bit of information...:

    "Auszeichnungen, die bestimmungsgemäß am Band auf der linken Brustseite zu tragen sind, werden an der Ordensschnalle vereinigt. Für einzelne Auszeichnungen ist das Tragen an der Bandschluppe nicht verboten."

    [= "Decorations that are intended to be worn from a ribbon on the left side of the chest are assembled into a medal bar. For single decorations, wear from a ribbon bow is not forbidden."]

    ...With no mention made that this is restricted to women.

    (Like I said, just another theory.)

  10. #29
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    Default Re: EK2 Souval with 'female' ribbon ?

    Thank you for the information Andreas. It would be a very exceptional circumstance to see a male EK 2 holder wearing his award on a bow when court mounted pieces were readily available.

    I suppose the hunt for a period image of this happening will begin......

  11. #30

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    Hello Gentleman,

    I saw your very interesting posts and thought I would join the discussion. I have a WW1 Eiserne kreuz mit Damenschleife which, I 'believe', was actually awarded to a German Nurse. Of course I have no way of proving this. I also have a nice WW2 Iron Cross with ladies bow which is very similar to Nicks. It is true that only 29 'documented' EK's were awarded to women during WW2 but during the mayhem of 1945 it is impossible to rule out that some 'may' have been awarded and not documented. I enclose pics of my EK's as well as an interesting pic of an elderly widow that appears to be wearing the Iron Cross 2nd Class although it is not on a ladies bow. At least this picture shows that war widows did wear the EK's of their fallen husbands and sons. Of course it is likely that other widows wore their husbands/sons EK's and fashioned them into a ladies bows. Well thats all, I hope you find the pics/post interesting.
    Lloyd
    I hope the files came out - I'm new at this!
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