EKII 1939 "133" photos

**Gew44** · 10-05-2010, 07:55 PM

Hi all,
somebody can show me a mm 133 EKII 1939?
Thanks

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 10-05-2010 07:55 PM

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**Adrian** · 10-05-2010, 08:39 PM

I can't help you Massimo, I don't think this maker produced EKs. To my knowledge, EK makers went from '132' to '137'.
Have you found a '133'?

**Gew44** · 10-05-2010, 09:26 PM

I read on WAF discussion about the mm, a people have a 133 mm cross.
Pheraps this PKZ number corresponding to Otto Schikle, and one pics permit to understand if this assumpion is right or not.

**Adrian** · 10-05-2010, 09:34 PM

by Gew44

I read on WAF discussion about the mm, a people have a 133 mm cross.
Pheraps this PKZ number corresponding to Otto Schikle, and one pics permit to understand if this assumpion is right or not.

Hi Massimo,

To quote Dietrich Maerz:

"The notion that "133" is Schickle's PKZ number is absolutely wrong. Schickle never got a PKZ number for several reasons. One being timing."

Schickle was given an LDO number (L/15) but only produced awards for a very short period of time, literally only a few months in 1941. If Schickle was given a PKZ number it would have been low (IMO).

**Gew44** · 10-05-2010, 10:00 PM

I don't know, bcause LDO and PKZ not are the same.
Many constructor recived a PKZ and not a LDO number, why not the opposite stuation ?

"Schickle never got a PKZ number for several reasons" witch are this reason ?

**Adrian** · 10-05-2010, 11:28 PM

by Gew44

Many constructor recived a PKZ and not a LDO number, why not the opposite stuation ?

"Schickle never got a PKZ number for several reasons" witch are this reason ?

Hi Massimo,
LDO numbers were introduced in 1941, PKZ numbers were introduced later - as far as we know.
There is much speculation as to the exact timeline regarding the introduction of PKZ numbers but the earliest we can guess at is around 1942.
In Schickle's case they produced awards from March 1941 and were given an LDO number. They went out of business in June 1941, just three months later and therefore didn't get a PKZ number because they ceased production before the introduction of these numbers.
That's why we can find L/15 marked Schickle EKs and unmarked but never PKZ stamped awards.

**Gew44** · 10-06-2010, 12:44 PM

by AdrianC

Hi Massimo,
LDO numbers were introduced in 1941, PKZ numbers were introduced later - as far as we know.
There is much speculation as to the exact timeline regarding the introduction of PKZ numbers but the earliest we can guess at is around 1942.
In Schickle's case they produced awards from March 1941 and were given an LDO number. They went out of business in June 1941, just three months later and therefore didn't get a PKZ number because they ceased production before the introduction of these numbers.
That's why we can find L/15 marked Schickle EKs and unmarked but never PKZ stamped awards.

The PKZ number was introduced around the middle 1944 until the end of war 1945, and also the production is the "neddle of balance".
We found many crosses PKZ mm and other are rare.
I ask to people who have this cross the pics, after I post here the answer, good or bad.
Thanks

**Snni** · 10-06-2010, 02:38 PM

As far as I know, 133 did not make EK2's.

**fabri** · 10-09-2010, 03:22 PM

Please Massimo check date about PKZ number introduction. 1944 seemed too late to me so I sent a PM to Dietrich,
he sayd : " From the evidence of the DKs I think it was late 1942. 1944 is clearly too late (but is correct for the RK series). "
It seems more correct to me too.

**Adrian** · 10-09-2010, 07:18 PM

by AdrianC

Hi Massimo,
PKZ numbers were introduced later - as far as we know.
There is much speculation as to the exact timeline regarding the introduction of PKZ numbers but the earliest we can guess at is around 1942.

That was my understanding too Fabri. Unfortunately this is 'best guess' and based upon probable information as opposed to hard evidence.