first eisernes kreuz help picking maker

[ironcross13]

hi guys thinking of buying my first item in my collection
a iron cross
been on collectors guild they have a few
I'm staying away from unmarked ones want to know they are real and where they come from
been trying to find a site that has a list of rarest makers
so i know which to pick
thinking of getting a 2ED CLASS one to start with
the one i seen has '27' anton schenkl marking
also one with '24' marking
which one is better?

if it has a maker dose it mean its from 1945 or before???
hope you guys can help

[Adrian]

Ok, several questions to answer here so here goes....
Have you looked around at other dealers? It might be easier to buy from a European dealer, there are many of them and some can be quite reasonable and also the shipping might be cheaper from an EU country.
Unmarked or marked, not much difference unless you specifically want to collect by maker. Unmarked crosses can be matched to a maker fairly easily. In fact, unmarked crosses are early production and can be better quality than the later marked examples.
There is a 'sticky' thread at the top of this sub forum which gives you a comprehensive list of makers.
Second class EKs are a good buy. Always popular and can be found very easily and for little money.
There is no hard or fast rule to decide which maker is better. There are more desireable makers but one collector may prefer one manufacturer over another and vice versa, it's down to the individual. I prefer a '24' over a '27' but someone else may tell you different.
Having a makers mark is no guarantee of originality. Fakes are marked just as easily as originals were and then you have the problem of original crosses being marked post war with a fake stamp......

My advice would be to shop around and see what's on the market and at what prices. In my opinion you would do well to start with a decent Wachtler & Lange - '100'. They are common, reasonably priced and can be found in mint condition. Failing that a Klein & Quenzer - '65' is another good starter.

[ironcross13]

thanks for your help
been on alot of site's but am unsure because im new want my stuff to be guaranteed to be real
can you recommend any EU sites?
been looking at the list of makers here> Iron Cross 2nd Class
so how do i figer out fakes from real ones?
this is so hard
why do people get greedy and make fakes, this is ww2 not a DVD or clothing

[Adrian]

I can certainly recommend some sites both in the UK, EU and US. I'll compile a list and send it to you.
Figuring out fakes from original EKs takes time, patience, research and experience. You'll be surprised how quickly you'll get to recognise the good from bad.
It's not that hard, it just takes what I mentioned above.
Fakes are made because people want money, can make fake awards and decorations fairly cheaply and then sell them for a large profit. Third Reich items are desireable and can command large sums of money. If a fake Knights Cross can be made for £100 (for arguments sake) and then sold for £5000 you can begin to see the motivation that drives the fakers.

[ironcross13]

yeah i can see why they do it
just shows they have no care or respect for WW2 and the soldiers that forth and died in it
so are there some fakes you cant tell apart from the real thing
looking forward to your list
thanks

[Woolgar]

Great advice and info from Adrian as usual !

Here is a very reliable dealer, may not be the cheapest but you will get a great secure service! ;

butschek antiques

Good luck with your EK collecting its a great passion to have !!

Nick

[M18922]

Great advice and info from Adrian as usual !

Here is a very reliable dealer, may not be the cheapest but you will get a great secure service! ;

butschek antiques

Good luck with your EK collecting its a great passion to have !!

Nick

I boughts most of my collection from that website and i have never had a problem

[KSH]

Great advice and info from Adrian as usual !

Here is a very reliable dealer, may not be the cheapest but you will get a great secure service! ;

butschek antiques


Good luck with your EK collecting its a great passion to have !!

Nick

I can only second what Nick says here! Klaus Butschek is my own favorite dealer and I have never had any but good experiences with him. He is a true gentleman and a man of his word.

- Kenneth