Für raub und morder - 1941

[oradour]

Gents, as it is a perported TR piece I shall leave it to 'them that know' as to authenticity, but surely it is not inconcievable that 'propaganda' crosses could of been made in WW2, as made in WW1 by the 'Entente Cordial', I show a couple of originals here....

[Woolgar]

Hi Dimas

Interesting discusions on the two links.

I wonder if we will ever know for sure

Nick

[Dimas]

The cross shown by thread starter is surely bad copy of existen original.
Here I will add some information.
The first picture is a war time drawing of soviet Leningrad's propaganda painter , I suspect he made his painting from a existen cross.
Also one of the soviet source and western source about it
And at least another original example

[oradour]

Dimas.....I thought they (Soviets) would of made such a cross, thanks for your last post. As I have a small collection of EK's from 1870-1957, (21 in all), I would be happy to have such a cross in my collection, I was unaware of its existance, until know. Gew44 thanks for starting a very interesting thread !
Prost! Steve.

[Dimas]

There first known information from the soviet souce circa 1970's.
Batistov is author
Here is quote from his book in Russian, where is vritten about this cross. And the author picture

[Adrian]

The EK2 posted by Dimas above has a Souval obverse frame and possibly an S&L or K&Q reverse frame (can't tell for sure).
I would suggest this is a parts cross made from original frames with a made up core inserted. Also most of the 'Für Raub und Mord' crosses encountered are one piece examples, not multi piece construction. Has anyone else seen a three piece cross?

[Dimas]

Known example from Russian collector's forum from private collection

[Dimas]

And at least German TR era made fake Soviet Red Star, from the KGB file
https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/order...de-1944-a-729/

[Adrian]

Dimas,
Is there a shot of the whole of the front please?

[Dimas]

No, unfortunately no