Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 45

Für raub und morder - 1941

Article about: I found this cross and I would love lissen your opinion about this one. This is made by Russian Army and is a propaganda cross anti-German soldier. The inscription "Für raub und morder&

  1. #21
    ?

    Default Re: Für raub und morder - 1941

    At least better resolution EK 2 1941
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	5.jpg 
Views:	96 
Size:	61.2 KB 
ID:	127441   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	6.jpg 
Views:	205 
Size:	122.9 KB 
ID:	127442  

    Regards,
    Dimas

    my Skype: warrelics

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Age
    2010
    P
    Many
     

  3. #22
    ?

    Default Re: Für raub und morder - 1941

    Thank you for the addition pics Dimas.
    Note the two different frames and how worn and damaged the obverse frame is on the cross above compared to the relatively clean reverse frame.

  4. #23

    Default Re: Für raub und morder - 1941

    Found this one out for auction om militaria321. Don´t think it´s an original.Of course the seller says it is... Looks like it´s a 3 peace construction.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mord1.jpg 
Views:	114 
Size:	47.1 KB 
ID:	127492   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mord2.jpg 
Views:	270 
Size:	102.7 KB 
ID:	127493  


  5. #24

    Default Re: Für raub und morder - 1941

    And here´s another one I found there for sale too.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	morrd1.jpg 
Views:	78 
Size:	82.0 KB 
ID:	127494   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	morrd2.jpg 
Views:	127 
Size:	81.2 KB 
ID:	127495  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	morrd3.jpg 
Views:	72 
Size:	79.4 KB 
ID:	127496  

  6. #25
    ?

    Default Re: Für raub und morder - 1941

    As you can see, there is difference in the date 1813, but I think that will be soon counted by a fakers, and the problem that peoples can compare original with just the pictures exists untill tommorow
    I really did'nt trust that any of the originals will be available, due of originals which exists, are stonely sits in the collections
    Regards,
    Dimas

    my Skype: warrelics

  7. #26
    ?

    Default Re: Für raub und morder - 1941

    The fake 2 class crosses is constructed from a 4 pieces, due the steel central plate is impossible to made with one piece of iron, it needs at least power for 350 tones Which is available at the big factories only
    Regards,
    Dimas

    my Skype: warrelics

  8. #27
    ?

    Default Re: Für raub und morder - 1941

    The thing I'm seeing here guys is original EK2s being taken apart and fake cores inserted. You can see this on the cross in post #23 and to a lesser extent in post #24. I'm curious about the EK1 that Dimas posted in #17. Why no shot of the front? I have a very strong suspicion that we may see a Floch or other fake frame there.

    I just can't see the Russians spending time churning out these crosses when there were T-34s and Kalashnikovs to produce!

    Some questions:

    If the Russians made these crosses, wouldn't they all be identical?
    The same frames?
    The same cores?
    Why spend the time producing an EK1 and EK2?
    Who exactly were the crosses given to?
    Why were so few made?
    If time and trouble was taken to make these crosses why not make thousands?
    Is it logical to think that under wartime conditions, the Russians would make a perfect example of a German made EK1 down to the hardware setup on the back?
    The story goes that these were made during the siege of Leningrad. Seriously..... under these terrible siege conditions, the Russians managed to produce the dies and tools to make 500 'Für raub und mord' EKs........? They had nothing else to do? Stranger things have happened but is that really believable?

    There are so many questions surrounding these crosses. I have never heard of an original example with cast iron undoubted proof that it is an original being found. I know and communicate with some experienced and respected EK collectors and none of them have or want one of these crosses in their collection. That speaks volumes.
    I will happily be proved wrong on these crosses and I will stress that my opinion is just that - my opinion.
    Please, someone convince me otherwise........

  9. #28
    ?

    Default Re: Für raub und morder - 1941

    Quote by AdrianC View Post
    The thing I'm seeing here guys is original EK2s being taken apart and fake cores inserted. You can see this on the cross in post #23 and to a lesser extent in post #24. I'm curious about the EK1 that Dimas posted in #17. Why no shot of the front? I have a very strong suspicion that we may see a Floch or other fake frame there.

    I just can't see the Russians spending time churning out these crosses when there were T-34s and Kalashnikovs to produce!

    Some questions:

    If the Russians made these crosses, wouldn't they all be identical?
    The same frames?
    The same cores?
    Why spend the time producing an EK1 and EK2?
    Who exactly were the crosses given to?
    Why were so few made?
    If time and trouble was taken to make these crosses why not make thousands?
    Is it logical to think that under wartime conditions, the Russians would make a perfect example of a German made EK1 down to the hardware setup on the back?
    The story goes that these were made during the siege of Leningrad. Seriously..... under these terrible siege conditions, the Russians managed to produce the dies and tools to make 500 'Für raub und mord' EKs........? They had nothing else to do? Stranger things have happened but is that really believable?

    There are so many questions surrounding these crosses. I have never heard of an original example with cast iron undoubted proof that it is an original being found. I know and communicate with some experienced and respected EK collectors and none of them have or want one of these crosses in their collection. That speaks volumes.
    I will happily be proved wrong on these crosses and I will stress that my opinion is just that - my opinion.
    Please, someone convince me otherwise........
    I agree!!
    Well written. I don't think the Russians made a single example of these crosses.

  10. #29

    Default Re: Für raub und morder - 1941

    Hi Guys,

    This is a very interesting thread, and I'd like to add to it with this example that has just appeared on the Beck Militaria website. It is an EK2 with a magnetic core and an asking price of 460 euro's. What is the general consensus on it's make up and appearance. Ta.

    Regards, Ned.

    P.S. Not the best pic's but that's all they've got up.


    Name:  indexCA8V97OM.jpg
Views: 583
Size:  15.2 KBClick image for larger version. 

Name:	indexCA5LXWI2.jpg 
Views:	72 
Size:	82.6 KB 
ID:	229390Click image for larger version. 

Name:	indexCACXEYJ8.jpg 
Views:	64 
Size:	61.3 KB 
ID:	229391Click image for larger version. 

Name:	indexCAJDCE9V.jpg 
Views:	89 
Size:	84.6 KB 
ID:	229394
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  11. #30
    ?

    Default Re: Für raub und morder - 1941

    I don't think that originals are available on the market- I would suggest- a fine fakes, even there no originals in the hands to compare
    Regards,
    Dimas

    my Skype: warrelics

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 03-04-2015, 02:35 AM
  2. 01-01-2009, 04:12 AM
  3. 12-23-2008, 01:52 AM
  4. 10-14-2008, 08:39 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •