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greman cross DKis

Article about: Is this the right place to post a DKis for viewing ???????

  1. #1

    Default greman cross DKis

    Is this the right place to post a DKis for viewing ???????

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  3. #2

    Default Re: greman cross DKis

    Yes, this would be the correct forum.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  4. #3
    ?

    Default Re: greman cross DKis

    Err, no, this is for the Eisernes Kreuz only. A Deutsche Kreuz should go in the main Awards and Decorations forum.

  5. #4

    Default Re: greman cross DKis

    Fussy fussy....technically, the German Cross was in the Iron Cross Family,anyway...lol
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  6. #5
    ?

    Default Re: greman cross DKis

    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Fussy fussy....technically, the German Cross was in the Iron Cross Family,anyway...lol
    Yes I am - but it's still not an Iron cross..........

    And I'm not sure the DK was a 'member' of the EK family, I thought it was a more 'stand alone' award as it didn't fit in with the EK line of progression. EK2, EK1, RK, RK with oaks etc etc - the DK didn't fit into it........

    An EK or RK made no difference to the award of a DK and vice versa.

  7. #6

    Default Re: greman cross DKis

    And here I had always heard that it was instituted to bridge the gap between the Ritter and the EK1...Oh well... I Still want to see what petsav has! lol
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  8. #7
    ?

    Default Re: greman cross DKis

    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    And here I had always heard that it was instituted to bridge the gap between the Ritter and the EK1...Oh well... I Still want to see what petsav has! lol
    Not to my knowledge, a common misconception though.

    And I also want to see what Pete has............

  9. #8

    Default Re: greman cross DKis

    Quote by Adrian View Post
    Yes I am - but it's still not an Iron cross..........

    And I'm not sure the DK was a 'member' of the EK family, I thought it was a more 'stand alone' award as it didn't fit in with the EK line of progression. EK2, EK1, RK, RK with oaks etc etc - the DK didn't fit into it........

    An EK or RK made no difference to the award of a DK and vice versa.
    Well... Not exactly; this applies only to the RKs:

    The Deutsches Kreuz in Gold could only be awarded to persons who had already won the EK1 and continued to distinguish themselves through bravery or military leadership, whereas the Deutsches Kreuz in Silber could only be awarded to persons who had already won the KVK1 and continued to distinguish themselves by military merit.

    Thus, a previous award of the respective first class cross was a necessary condition and the Deutsches Kreuz in its two Abteilungen [i.e. categories, not classes!] Gold and Silver was indeed created to bridge the gap between the EK1/KVK1 and their respective Knight's Crosses:

    When the war entered its third year in 1941, the need for such a decoration became ever more apparent. A large number of early-war recipients of the EK1 or KVK1 continued to distinguish themselves with achievements above and beyond the call of duty of such a nature that they would have qualified for the first classes several times over.

    However, under the statutes of these decorations, multiple awards of the same class were not possible. Since this kind of practice was unheard of anyway in German military tradition, altering the statutes in order to create the possibility of multiple awards was out of the question. (Interestingly, multiple awards of the same decoration had a long tradition in the Russian military, which was one of the reasons the practice was actually adopted for the Ostvölker decorations.)
    Likewise, lowering the standards for an award of the respective Knight's Cross was also not desirable, as the lowered standards and rapidly increasing number of recipients would have de-valued the RKs of the EK and KVK, which were to remain highly prestigious decorations.

    Hence, a new decoration was created. It was indeed not a new class of the EK and KVK, which is reflected in its wholly different design and designation and the fact that a previous award of the DK was not necessary for the award of the respective RK (although it could still be awarded after said RK).
    It was, however, closely tied to the EK/KVK families and fitted very precisely into their order of precedence.

    This connection to the EK/KVK was even reflected in the design of the 1957 versions of the Deutsches Kreuz, where the Swastika was replaced with an EK for the Gold cross and a KVK for the Silver one. (A design suggestion made by the noted phaleristic expert Dr. Kurt-G. Klietmann.)

  10. #9
    ?

    Default Re: greman cross DKis

    I take your point Andreas but the Deutsche Kreuz was not a member of the EK family per se, it was a new and separate award created to fill a gap and the way in which it was awarded has made it an illegitimate member of the EK family which in my mind is quite wrong. The EK is, was and will always be a completely identifiable and immediately recognised decoration whereas the DK is an outsider. It was like a parasite living off the Eisernes Kreuz, hitching a ride along with it's more established counterparts.
    Therefore, I don't believe it should be included in the Eisernes Kreuz forum when it isn't actually an Eisernes Kreuz.

  11. #10

    Default Re: greman cross DKis

    Quote by Adrian View Post
    I take your point Andreas but the Deutsche Kreuz was not a member of the EK family per se, it was a new and separate award created to fill a gap and the way in which it was awarded has made it an illegitimate member of the EK family which in my mind is quite wrong. The EK is, was and will always be a completely identifiable and immediately recognised decoration whereas the DK is an outsider. It was like a parasite living off the Eisernes Kreuz, hitching a ride along with it's more established counterparts.
    Therefore, I don't believe it should be included in the Eisernes Kreuz forum when it isn't actually and Eisernes Kreuz.
    That damned fried egg.....The b@$tard!
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

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