Ritterkreuz opinions

[CARL]

Opinions welcome on this marked RK with ribbon please folks. I have looked at one or two originals, and would like to know what you think about the loop attached to the top of the frame? Overall, I have my doubts.

Regards,

Carl

[nshadow]

Hi Carl, I am assuming that is a magnet on the center part. Looking at the pics, and not in hand. I don't see any glaring errors. Markings are a bit sparse, but not terribly unusual. Condition of paint looks about right. I would think it is OK, but wait for more comments

[talltom]

i am by no means an expert but i do notice that the loop doesn't seem to look right as it overlaps both sides and i thought they were supposed to just sit fluch with the top, the only other thing is the last picture (opposite the 3) looks to be a crack/bent but above and below looks to possible be flash (cast maybe)


however wait for an expert and i hope you get a nice one

[Woolgar]

Very valid observations Tom ! I have not seen a suspension ring in that position before

Nick

[Paul D]

Dipping ring fake i'm afraid !! No original RK has a ring which dips into the frame !!

[Paul D]

The ribbon is a modern fake as well , sorry for that !!

[CARL]

Thanks guys! I mentioned the loop, or suspension ring I should say, so I'm glad that you highlighted that Paul. Nice spot on the flawed frame too Tom, I hadn't noticed that. The item isn't mine, and the seller is not somebody I know so I wanted to show it before I considered doing anything.

Cheers,

Carl

[Harrier]

This particular version cross has been around for a number of years and can be found with numerous marks (including "L/12", "20", etc.). There is also a 1957 version using this same frame and there is a very slight chance that the frame may have been used by an unknown maker in the pre-November, 1941 period to make some crosses.

Although there is, as of now, no "official award" cross with a "dipping ring", the so-called "Sedlatzek cross' in the Maerz book is an example of a wartime-made cross with an intentional "dipping ring". Interestingly, the frame on the "Sedlatzek cross" (note: NOT made by Sedlatzek, but only sold by him), is the same frame used by Souval to make postwar crosses with "dipping 3" in the obverse '1939' date. There are multiple original wartime photos of "dipping ring" crosses in wear. Some of these are most likely the "Seladtzek" version, some may be "normal" crosses from known makers where the step of "shaving" the integral ring as it intrudes into the frame was missed, and others may be other crosses from unknown makers. The "no original crosses with dipping ring" belief is a myth, and it is more accurate to say that "no currently known AWARD CROSSES" have the dipping ring.

[Adrian]

The guys above are correct Carl, this is a post war made cross and ribbon too.

[talltom]

how do you actually tell a wartime ribbon from a fake one ive never quite worked it out