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Souval RK with Oaks & Swords.........

Article about: Gentlemen, apologies if some of you think this thread in the wrong section.....Adrian feel free to move the BW sub section if you feel uncomfortable with it here, preliminaries over, here fo

  1. #1

    Default Souval RK with Oaks & Swords.........

    Gentlemen, apologies if some of you think this thread in the wrong section.....Adrian feel free to move the BW sub section if you feel uncomfortable with it here, preliminaries over, here for your disdain or delight..... a post war produced Knights Cross of the Iron Cross with Oaks & Swords...made sometime in either the late 1940's/50's or 1960's these RK's by Rudolph Souval of Vienna were I believe bought and worn by veterans in defiance of the 1957 regulations, Souval and other makers, Deschler,Deumer, St u L and Assman were usually represented at veterans meetings selling their wares either with or with out the swastika..........Souval products have caused headaches for collectors from 1945 to the present, and are hated and usually seen as fake/repro, they are now becoming collectable in their own right and are IMO as close as you can get to a WW2 produced item, this RK being as close (and my bank account) as I will get to the real thing !
    With Souvals "hollow" Oaks and Swords accompanying this piece (he also did solid Oaks/Swords), the cross exhibits typical Souval die stamped construction with its magnetic core with low swastika, and frame hatching, the frames and Oaks and Swords are silver "800" marked, some of these Souval RK's were also marked with the L/58 marking, but not this one. This set is complete with Souval's RK Etui/box, which is slightly bigger in width than the 57er and WW2 versions...... It now resides in my 1957 collection with all my other 57er RK, all eleven of them ! Love it or loath it, comments please
    Prost ! Steve.
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    Last edited by oradour; 10-18-2013 at 06:24 PM.
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

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  3. #2

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    Interesting thread. I imagine my bank account will also never support my purchase of a RK with oaks and swords. I'm not a serious student of RKs just yet, so I can't say that I feel one way or another about this one, which should not be taken as a negative view.

  4. #3

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    Nice addition to your collection, Steve. I wish i could afford such a nice piece.

    John
    I specialize in M1 carbines and Lugers.

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    Quote by guns ltd View Post
    Nice addition to your collection, Steve. I wish i could afford such a nice piece.John
    Thanks John, they are not that expensive......there are always a few for sale over on e-stand, on WAF, where this one was sourced.
    Prost ! Steve.
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

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    Nice one Steve,

    It is good to see it complete with Souval case and OLS.

    However, I believe that the cross itself is a much later production. The heavily flawed frames combined with the non-dipping 3 core (with the circle mark on the obverse 3 o'clock arm) are evidence of this.
    Still though, it is a very nice set.

    Here are two I have owned in the past - the one on the left (with the oaks) is the same type as yours and the other is an earlier version with dipping three.

    Regards - Danny
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks for that Danny, I have been told mine is late 1960's, those two you show are very nice pieces !
    Thanks for showing............
    Prost ! Steve.
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

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    Steve I agree with every thing you said,I have always liked Souval's stuff, the good and the bad.a chap I knew also knew Souval and he was told by him that a lot of his very early item were unfinished wartime medals and badges.

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    Steve,

    I missed that in your first post... 11 x 57'er RK's!!!?
    I for one, would love to see them. Have you posted them here already?

    Regards - Danny

  10. #9

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    Quote by Danny70 View Post
    Steve,I missed that in your first post... 11 x 57'er RK's!!!? I for one, would love to see them. Have you posted them here already? Regards - Danny
    Danny, all in all, one "Schikle", four "D" frames, three "C" frames, two "B" frames and one post war Souval, see here..........1) post #18 in this thread Bundeswehr veterans and the 57' awards. 2) My second 57er RK..an early "B" frame ! 3) My third 57er RK...an 800 marked "B" frame. 4) My 4th 57er RK ! a boxed "C" frame....... 5) My fifth 57er RK....... 6) Another 57er Knights Cross.............. 7) My seventh 57er RK !
    8) The good, the bad and now the ugly ! A very late 57er RK. 9) the above Souval, I know it is not a 57er but I include in the display ! number 10) is another late St u L "925" with Oaks, and number 11) is a Schickle (Deumer) RK with Deumer Oaks, both these crosses are in the post and I will post as soon as received.
    I will do a group shot of all of them together................
    Prost ! Steve.
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

  11. #10

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    Quote by oradour View Post
    Danny, all in all, one "Schikle", four "D" frames, three "C" frames, two "B" frames and one post war Souval, see here..........1) post #18 in this thread Bundeswehr veterans and the 57' awards. 2) My second 57er RK..an early "B" frame ! 3) My third 57er RK...an 800 marked "B" frame. 4) My 4th 57er RK ! a boxed "C" frame....... 5) My fifth 57er RK....... 6) Another 57er Knights Cross.............. 7) My seventh 57er RK !
    8) The good, the bad and now the ugly ! A very late 57er RK. 9) the above Souval, I know it is not a 57er but I include in the display ! number 10) is another late St u L "925" with Oaks, and number 11) is a Schickle (Deumer) RK with Deumer Oaks, both these crosses are in the post and I will post as soon as received.
    I will do a group shot of all of them together................
    Prost ! Steve.
    Thank you Steve.

    That collection is simply superb!!
    And I thought I was doing well with just two!
    I'm really looking forward to the group shot.

    Regards - Danny

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