patch 101th airborne

[jaroldan]

Hi, I bought these patches of the 101th airborne. Please, someone can tell me if they are originals of World War II. What type are they?
I have looked at the website of Mark Bando, and it is difficult to determine the type.
Thank you very much

[Rescue190]

Welcome to the forum. You really should post pics using the easy upload feature on this site and when taking pics of patches include an edge shot. I like the bottom one. I think the top one could be but I would like to see if it glows under UV light or not. I cannot help with which type.
John

[bsiwula1]

Hello Jaroldan welcome to the forum. Please upload your pictures directly to the forum in the future. It s a rather easy process and will ensure the images stay with the thread for future reference. The patches are fine ww2 period cut edge. I'm not certain of which design but yes Bando is the reference to defer to. But I'm positive they are of period. Best regards.

Brian


jaroldan's patches


Mine for reference


From Mark's Page Trigger Time

[jaroldan]

Hi John, Sorry by the presentation of the photos. Thank a lot for your comments. I'll check if the patches shine with UV light. It is not easy to determine the type. Regards
José

[jaroldan]

Hi Brian, thanks a lot for your comments and for your photos of patches, they are very nice. I am initiating my collection of insignia of the WW 2, I have a great interest by the insignia of USA.
Regardas

José

[Phill Lockett]

Hi Jarolane

Confirming WWII era 101st SSI (add 11th and 82nd) is very difficult and not as easy as one thinks. The reason being is that the same manufacturers made the same style/variation of patch from 1942 -1955 using the same schiffli embroidery machine , the same tape, probably the same designer and people as in WWII.

Other difficulties are Bando shows the most known ones he has studied , collected and received from veterans, now within those "9 Types" he also had sub variations within each of the "Types" that were slightly different but not enough to make it a full "Type."

A point some major US airborne collectors mention is that he mainly ,if not all interviewed were paratroops and not Glider borne troops, so the point being it would of been better to get an all over view of SSI issued and worn.

All of the above types,including yours, are by different manufacturers excluding Brian's top and bottom right hand as per Bando's "Type 1." Manufacturers could and as you see change a design , a kind of signature.

UV light will not detect any glow ie polyester thread as Rayon thread was used from 1942-mid 50's. Once polyester became more readily available and cheaper it superseded rayon , then you could detect polyester thread used when existing stocks of rayon was exhausted.

The most known and produced WWII SSI is the one pictured top and bottom right hand as per Bando's "Type 1."

Most if not all 101st that comes with Airborne Tab have been added to SSI post WWII by dealers, collectors etc , unless you have one with provenance from a veteran it is hard to say.

As a collector of US SSI and I have a few 101st WWII-1955 era I'm very particular at what I look when it comes to WWII era eagles and I don't necessarily follow Bando's site as the be all , it is the major acknowledge reference but there were many manufacturers making 101st SSI during and post WWII especially when it was reactivated back to Airborne status in mid 50's.

The only way to know for sure is if you had the actual Manufacturers dated box the SSI came out of.

This is my own opinion, yours and Brian's two left hand eagles are post WWII.

Let me explain, your one is what is called a scribble eye that Bando describes further on and has been documented from other sources and reference material.

Brian's 2 left hand have had a wider khaki twill showing , see Bando's eagles no khaki shown, each and every patch during WWII was hand cut back to the edge,

The Korean war many divisions were reactivated as Training divisions and manufacturers had SSI re made with out having the twill cut back to the edge-probably due to cost cutting measures.

Add to that from 1946-1949 the Airborne tab was rescinded and you will see pics of the SSI only, this applied to the 101st up to 1954/55 period when it became a full Airborne Division.

Again confirming WWII era 101st is a difficult task , I have put some I thought were WWII era into my post WWII era SSI because I am not confident they are WWII era.

Confusing yes but always good to share collecting experience.

The one I still cannot confirm WWII is the first eagle so they are all in my post WWII SSI.

PhillAttachment 1123176Attachment 1123177Attachment 1123178Attachment 1123179Attachment 1123180Attachment 1123181

[jaroldan]

Hi Phill,
thank a lot for yours comments, it is incredible everything that can be learned. I completely agree with you, it's really difficult to date a patch.

Your first patch and my second patch are very similar. I always thought that my first patch is post-war (maybe type 14), but I also thought that my second patch might be a Type 7 variant.
What's your opinion about it?

Thank a lot again. regards

José

[jaroldan]

Hi Phill, you can see a patch similar to the second one on the web:

Selles Military Antiques · Jean-Michel Selles · Accueil · Découvrir le catalogue · ETATS-UNIS · Patches, Médailles & Décorations

The patch is classified as type 7. It is expensive (145 euro = 172 $). What's your opinion about it?

Regards

José

[Phill Lockett]

Hi Jose

Type 7 1950's patch and mismatched tab ie put together.

Type 3 is another 1950's patch and tab.

Type 6 white tongue SSI WWII era Tab 1950's manufacture

To answer your question "....second patch type 7..." no yours is different in eagle shape and eye to Bando's.

A lot of collectors who use Bando's site for recognition always get confused because the ones they see on web sites or ebay have "WWII" in the title and have similar characteristics but are not the same.

Type 3 and 5 in Bando's site have been manufactured into the 50's so that also is also an issue to watch out for.

Types 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 and 9 is what I look for but has to be exact.

Phill

[jaroldan]

Hi Phill,
it seems clear that before buying it is necessary to carefully check the originality of the article. This forum can be of great help.

Thanks again

José