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RFC Mk.IVA.Etienne & Co Cockpit clock...rather urgent if you wouldn't mind

Article about: Good Evening Ladies and Gentlemen I'm in a bit of a pickle here. I've found a Mk.IVA Etienne & Co pocket watch - white dial and WD marked on eBay. I don't have a problem with the watch -

  1. #1

    Default RFC Mk.IVA.Etienne & Co Cockpit clock...rather urgent if you wouldn't mind

    Good Evening Ladies and Gentlemen

    I'm in a bit of a pickle here.

    I've found a Mk.IVA Etienne & Co pocket watch - white dial and WD marked on eBay.

    I don't have a problem with the watch - the white dial for this piece is fine as far as I'm aware for the RFC during WW1.....but I'm having some problems with the Cockpit Case. I'm sure that I've seen one similar in the past that has been mounted, but for the life of me I can't find it again - (I should have saved it at the time - silly me!).

    Can anyone confirm that does in fact belong in a Cockpit?

    I then have another problem...the Seller has stated several times that she will only sell to the UK - I think I'm OK in this regard - I have a cousin living there.

    However, it only has a couple of days left to run - so any input would be most gratefully received.

    May thanks for your time.


    Dang - not sure how useful the images are going to be - they are the Sellers and they did save - or at least I thought they did - just a tad larger than they are currently showing...

    Here's where to search: WW1 Royal Flying Corps 8 Day Pilots Watch.Mk.IVA.Etienne & Cockpit

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    Last edited by Allegra; 06-19-2014 at 12:17 PM.

  2. #2


    saw one like this a long time ago at the imp.war museum.

  3. #3


    Thanks Harry for the reply!

    I am sure I've seen one installed in a cockpit - just can't find the silly photo!


  4. #4


    Try here for starters.
    RFC Aircraft Watches - Mark V Letter Codes - Topic
    And here.
    Seems they are supposed to be marked with an A.

  5. #5


    Hi Wood

    Yes, I already have that particular thread on RFC watches favourited - but thank you.

    My understanding is that not all RFC had the A with the Broad Arrow - though a lot most certainly did.

    A part of that thread has this following information:

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    In the same thread it is also pointed out:

    All dates are tentative but there is evidence enough to assume that 1917 was a key year.

    By then, the ‘W^D’ marking (which hitherto had appeared on Mark IVA case backs) was cancelled for use and the ‘A-Broad Arrow' marking introduced instead (see RAF Form 1048 ref: 2000/10/17, shown in Konrad Knirim’s ‘British Military Timepieces’ book (2009) p 395).

    It seems likely that the first Mark V watches were commissioned in that year also. This is certainly the case for Omega, whose watches are often dated to c. 1916 on the basis, I think, of published tables equating movement serial numbers in the 5xxxxxx range to 1916. This may be accurate so far as the year of manufacture is concerned. However, Omega factory records shown in Konrad Knirim’s book prove that an order for 600 watches, placed by client 1120 (‘Force Aerienne Anglaise’) in July 1917, left the factory in September 1917 with movement serials in the 49xxxxx-50xxxxx range: see p 403. This batch of watches almost certainly represents the first order that was placed with Omega (which in turn was probably the first manufacturer commissioned to supply Mark V watches).


    My catalogue of MkIV watch manufacturers (dials all arabic numerals, Non-Lum unless otherwise stated):

    xxx AB: Carley & Clemence Ltd (white, then black dials, A/|\S then A)
    xxx AC: H Williamson Ltd (white, then black dials, W/|\D)
    xxx AF: W. Ehrhardt, London (W/|\D)
    xxx AG: Moise Dreyfuss (white, then black dials, A and W/|\D)
    xxx AT: Etienne & Cie (white dial)


    Edit - left out a part of a quote

  6. #6


    Well you certainly know a great deal more than me. All I can remember is a piece in a book that was said to a pilot after a crash "Did you remember the watch?" (Wind in the Wires?)

  7. #7


    Hi Pete

    Unfortunately I know just enough to get myself into trouble....

    I have found a similar watch housing for a Breguet.


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  8. #8


    Seem to be getting a little closer in the search....


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  9. #9


    Ah well, I guess it wasn't meant to be. 4 bids after mine in the final 40 seconds - got well and truly trounced on this! Sold for over GBP380.

    Very possibly it is worth that much - but I think the bidding on eBay gets a little silly at times - almost along the lines of: 'I have to have it - no matter what'.


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