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of what units was this Squadron insignia

Article about: by big ned Oh, I see, thanks for clearing that up. sorry but as you know there is never really a way to know all for sure and it was just a thought and no final meaning, would be nice to hav

  1. #1

    Default of what units was this Squadron insignia

    i would love to know of what units came this Squadron insignia of, to the rest of my collection who i have shown a lot of so far i know of what and where it came from but to this 2 items i do not know a lot and would love to know more


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    for this part i know it was on a captured plane who was used to fool the enemy as it was a german plane but the pilot was not and so they had an easy go to shot down enemy planes but still i would love to know of what luftwaffe unit it came in the first place then it is still a fair amount of unit markings to see

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    here i only know it was fount in kent but that is all and i dont know the unit who is showen here

  2. #2
    ?

    Default Re: of what units was this Squadron insignia

    Don't know what squadrons they were, but I do know those pieces are VERY hard to find friend.

  3. #3

    Default Re: of what units was this Squadron insignia

    Quote by SteveR View Post
    Don't know what squadrons they were, but I do know those pieces are VERY hard to find friend.
    yes i know, was hard work to find my items, have a look at my collection display for more rare aviation items

    Here My Collection of WWII German Aircraft Parts
    Last edited by Swingcat; 04-12-2012 at 12:35 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: of what units was this Squadron insignia

    looks like i found one my self after ages of searching but looks like the clover fits to the stukageschwader 4.StG2 but still no clue for the other one

  5. #5

    Default Re: of what units was this Squadron insignia

    [QUOTE=Swingcat;533465]i would love to know of what units came this Squadron insignia of, to the rest of my collection who i have shown a lot of so far i know of what and where it came from but to this 2 items i do not know a lot and would love to know more

    The ace of spades emblem is the symbol for JG53 the famous 'Pik A's'. But I see major problems with this. The spade symbol was always on a white background within the diamond never yellow. Later in the war after the BoB, during Barbarossa, the diamond was on a yellow painted cowling but the spade symbol was still on a white field.

    Also, this emblem was ordered removed from all Geschwader aircraft during the mid part of the BoB on the orders of Goering himself when it was discovered that one of the senior officers was married to a jewish woman. The order stated that a wide red band, a symbol of shame, be painted around the cowling of each aircraft. In reprisal to this, the pilots removed the swastika from the tails of each aircraft, making them very distinctive during the battle.

    Furthermore, what's going on with the Hakenkreuz kill symbols? Are you saying this aircraft was flown by allied pilots, against the rules of war, to sneak up on the enemy and shoot them down? No where in the western war did that happen my friend.

    So, are we to take it that this piece of wreckage is from the eastern war? The post is a bit blurred to me on this point, but when you add up the facts of the colour of the diamond with the Hakenkreuz kill markings and the wholly unlikely tale of pilots, western allies or eastern ones, shooting down e/a with their own aircraft is too much of a cuckoo in the nest for me.

    As Steve has already pointed out, these singular pieces of iconic aircraft and squadrons are almost too good to be true, if real they are as rare as rocking horse poo, and worth thousands.

    This point, and the irregularities in both the insignia, the kill markings and the almost unbelievable story of it's use by the opposing side, make me almost 100% certain that you've been sold a pup. You bought the story, not the item, and I am sorry for you for that. I hope someone else here can perhaps shed more light on these pieces and prove me wrong, but it all seems to good to be true to me.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  6. #6

    Default Re: of what units was this Squadron insignia

    [QUOTE=big ned;535795]
    Quote by Swingcat View Post
    i would love to know of what units came this Squadron insignia of, to the rest of my collection who i have shown a lot of so far i know of what and where it came from but to this 2 items i do not know a lot and would love to know more

    The ace of spades emblem is the symbol for JG53 the famous 'Pik A's'. But I see major problems with this. The spade symbol was always on a white background within the diamond never yellow. Later in the war after the BoB, during Barbarossa, the diamond was on a yellow painted cowling but the spade symbol was still on a white field.

    Also, this emblem was ordered removed from all Geschwader aircraft during the mid part of the BoB on the orders of Goering himself when it was discovered that one of the senior officers was married to a jewish woman. The order stated that a wide red band, a symbol of shame, be painted around the cowling of each aircraft. In reprisal to this, the pilots removed the swastika from the tails of each aircraft, making them very distinctive during the battle.

    Furthermore, what's going on with the Hakenkreuz kill symbols? Are you saying this aircraft was flown by allied pilots, against the rules of war, to sneak up on the enemy and shoot them down? No where in the western war did that happen my friend.

    So, are we to take it that this piece of wreckage is from the eastern war? The post is a bit blurred to me on this point, but when you add up the facts of the colour of the diamond with the Hakenkreuz kill markings and the wholly unlikely tale of pilots, western allies or eastern ones, shooting down e/a with their own aircraft is too much of a cuckoo in the nest for me.

    As Steve has already pointed out, these singular pieces of iconic aircraft and squadrons are almost too good to be true, if real they are as rare as rocking horse poo, and worth thousands.

    This point, and the irregularities in both the insignia, the kill markings and the almost unbelievable story of it's use by the opposing side, make me almost 100% certain that you've been sold a pup. You bought the story, not the item, and I am sorry for you for that. I hope someone else here can perhaps shed more light on these pieces and prove me wrong, but it all seems to good to be true to me.

    Regards, Ned.
    hello ned
    thanks for you concerns, to the first item i only can say it came out of a pub and is for sure a piece of an ME if the paint and story is right i have no idear but the sq rest sure looks right to me and stands every chemical test i could do for the crosses no clue but that was the story it came with so still a piece of plane and was under 100 bucks what makes it a big bargain, the second one was found by a good friend after a crash of a german aircraft and he was a little boy back then and only keep this parts till his death, i nearly have 20 different pieces of that plane and he never had any intrest in selling that items or did he showed them to other people what then makes no sence to change a part, to the money and buying a story i only can say i never care for the story and only buy items in that range from knowen sorces what i did all the time so far and yes some of my items are over 10k but that is not the thing what is the intresting thing then that is my problem how much i can spend when i want to what i can when it is needet so dont judge the money factor, i have a not small collection of aircraft and was thinking to show it in the future more and more so you will see i dont have any small parts and was loving the painted items always more as the rest

  7. #7

    Default Re: of what units was this Squadron insignia

    Quote by Swingcat View Post
    looks like i found one my self after ages of searching but looks like the clover fits to the stukageschwader 4.StG2 but still no clue for the other one
    Hi Swingcat,

    From looking at my files and books it appears that Stab 4./Stg 2 were actually formed in Libya in late 1941 from the amalgamation of Stabs I & II Immelmann Geschwader. So how did this aircraft end up crashing in Kent?

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  8. #8

    Default Re: of what units was this Squadron insignia

    Quote by big ned View Post
    Hi Swingcat,

    From looking at my files and books it appears that Stab 4./Stg 2 were actually formed in Libya in late 1941 from the amalgamation of Stabs I & II Immelmann Geschwader. So how did this aircraft end up crashing in Kent?

    Regards, Ned.
    i have no idea but who knows maybe it was at the moment in the wrong place, maybe got transfered or was on the way to somewhere and was needet to help an other sq, i really dont know but never say never then same as insignia on tunics they sure hade some exeptions for every other thing as well, i dont actually know where but i have seen in books planes with 2 unit markings, when the pilot was befor in a special unit and then was transfered to an other maybe he was loving the other sign too or as i told before no clue

  9. #9

    Default Re: of what units was this Squadron insignia

    Oh, I see, thanks for clearing that up.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  10. #10
    ?

    Default Re: of what units was this Squadron insignia

    Quote by big ned View Post
    Oh, I see, thanks for clearing that up.


    A
    Best Regards,


    Andy

    [COLOR=#ffa07a]
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