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NEW MEMBER! B17 crash parts identification.....

Article about: The aircraft in question here appears not to be 44-6005 but B-17G 44-8639 of the 351st BG based at Polebrook, Northamptonshire. The aircraft was trying to get in at RAF Valley but was told t

  1. #11

    Default Re: NEW MEMBER! B17 crash parts identification.....

    The aircraft in question here appears not to be 44-6005 but B-17G 44-8639 of the 351st BG based at Polebrook, Northamptonshire. The aircraft was trying to get in at RAF Valley but was told to go around again for finals. Valley transmitted a course but the pilot took a reciprocal course in error which took him back inland over the hills towards Dolgellau. Having realised his mistake he turned starboard back to regain his heading out over the sea. The aircraft struck Craig Cwm Llwyd and travelled approximately 300 yards before breaking up and exploding around 200 feet below the summit. All 20 onboard were killed. They were:

    Howard R. Hibbard 1st Lieutenant Pilot Killed
    Joseph C. Robinson Captain Co-pilot Killed
    Joseph A. Glover Captain Navigator Killed
    John Q. Montgomery Master Sergeant Engineer / Crew Chief Killed
    Max Marksheid Technical Sergeant Radio Operator Killed
    Santo A. Caruso Staff Sergeant Gunner Killed
    Kenneth W. Craumer Technical Sergeant Gunner Killed
    David I. Rapoport Sergeant Gunner Killed
    Lester A.F. Rhein Technical Sergeant Gunner Killed
    Robert E. Smith Staff Sergeant Gunner Killed
    Richard E. Higley 1st Lieutenant Passenger Killed
    Teed O. Smith Staff Sergeant Passenger Killed
    Morris Lemewski Technical Sergeant Passenger Killed
    Paul Lucyk DFC Technical Sergeant Passenger Killed
    Edwin R. Birtwell Sergeant Passenger Killed
    Sheldon R. Coons Sergeant Passenger Killed
    Camille F. Devaney Sergeant Passenger Killed
    Boyd P. Dobbs Sergeant Passenger Killed
    John D. Leasure Sergeant Passenger Killed
    Calvert G. Pool Corporal Passenger Killed


    That's the bones of the story of these fragments of wreckage. Concerning the 'shackle' I now believe this is actually a snap hook for a static parachute line. What was it doing on the aircraft? I don't know, possibly for crew bail out purposes? Or more likely, to tie down securely the crew and passengers kit? Afterall, 20 guys going home are going to have a lot of luggage and that needs securing; if it slipped the CofG of the aircraft could be compromised I suppose.

    Below are some examples of static line snap hooks, a couple are very similar, in fact, one's a ringer in my book, the last one is actually Fallschirmjager, but I've included it as a general example. I'll wait to see what others think.

    The weird thing is how this came to me, don't laugh, but I dreamt it last night,... I dreamed I was on the 'plane!!

    Regards, Ned.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture DSCI0383.jpg   imagesCAACUQKP.jpg  

    imagesCAL03P7A.jpg   wk2_fallschirmjager_fallschirm_08806385_AA_01_01a_400.jpg  

    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  2. #12

    Default Re: NEW MEMBER! B17 crash parts identification.....

    Thanks again for the info. Over on another forum I have been told about the confusion over the aircraft number. All the books I have read have the A/C down as 44-6005 but more recent research by historians suggest that it was indeed 44-8639. This means i'm going to have to change all my labels! I guess the only real way of proving that it definately isn't 44-6005 is to find out what eventually happened to that aircraft. If it didn't end up on a Welsh hillside was it shot down on a raid or was it scrapped back in the US after the war?

    The static line hooks pictured look wrong to me, for a start they look to me made from alloy, whereas mine is made from (rusty) steel. The hooks in the bomb bay pic look to be a dead ringer however, the shape is right, the bolts are in the right place. I'd say we have a match!

    Pictures of this aircraft seem to be very difficult to find, I have only seen one grainy imagine of it post crash. Where would be the best place to look?
    Last edited by Lankytim; 05-10-2012 at 11:52 AM.

  3. #13

    Default Re: NEW MEMBER! B17 crash parts identification.....

    Hi gang.

    Has anybody heard from Greg AKA B17rescue recently? I donated these parts to his collection but have had no contact since. I'd like to find out if he's OK and recieved the parts or not. I've tried PM and email with no response.

  4. #14
    ?

    Default Re: NEW MEMBER! B17 crash parts identification.....

    As a side note, doe's anybody remember a story being run on the BBC "Nationwide" news programme in the 70's, concerning a range of mountains in Wales, where in flight returning abandoned aircraft had flown on autopilot clean across England, and the first point of contact was the said mountains ... and IF they cleared them, they flew out into the Atlantic and crashed when their fuel ran out. ?

  5. #15
    ?

    Default Re: NEW MEMBER! B17 crash parts identification.....

    In my youth I went wreck hunting in the peak district, found a few, the park wardens were very happy for you to take anything away to restore the beauty of the area.
    Sadly the Dakota fuselage was in a deep gully with a dead sheep inside, and the Superfortress parts were too large to carry away across a landscape like a WWI trench system.
    Pete

  6. #16

    Default Re: NEW MEMBER! B17 crash parts identification.....

    Nobody has any news about Greg/B17rescue? I'm getting a bit worried. He still owes me for the postage!

  7. #17

    Default Re: NEW MEMBER! B17 crash parts identification.....

    Maybe he's done a Lord Lucan.....
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  8. #18

    Default Re: NEW MEMBER! B17 crash parts identification.....

    Quite possibly, he hasn't logged into the forum for over a month so I'm slightly worried about his safety! Hopefully the consignment of B17 bits haven't ended up in the bin somewhere.

  9. #19

    Default Re: NEW MEMBER! B17 crash parts identification.....

    No response to phone calls either. Do I regret sending those parts now? Yes!!

  10. #20

    Default Re: NEW MEMBER! B17 crash parts identification.....

    Still no trace of "B17Rescue"

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