Remains of LIBERATOR

[matilda]

On 22.11.1944 a B 24 J fall down in nearest mountin saddle of my native willage,in a beautifull well known (ski - jump)wally Planica -Tamar, nearby italian border on cca. 2200 m high point.
I and a few of my history buff friends ,visit that place allmost every year,when the snow desapere in summer, and it is a very nice trip ,enjojing every time on diffrent way. Reserching the crash point ,always bring something new and a four hours of walk,(mountiniring) is quickly forgotten. There are stil so many intresting things there.


Here is some pics of remains

Now an ask for a help ,to you fellow colectors and autoritis on tihs forum.

The plain (what do I know)


Liberator B-24 j No 44-41055 of 455 bg San Giovanni Chernigola Italy.

Crashed on 22. 11.1944 in Tamar SLOVENIJA form. YUGOSLAVIA.

I want to know ;

1. Names and the destiny of the crew.
2. Name of the plane.
3. Any other informatin
4.Any kind of source forthis answers

I ll be gratefull for every answer!

[BOB COLEMAN]

Has the site ever been investigated by the US war graves identification group? If the crew survived and fell in to the hands of the Soviet forces, their chance of survival are nil.

[Rick]

Bob i thought the Soviets would have been ok with the US in 44??

Rick

[ian_]

Hello there. There is a Missing Air Crew Report (MACR) for 44-41055 available here, at a cost:
November 1944 USAAF Missing Air Crew Reports

This means the crew were probably killed.

You also have two bits which fit together. in the big group of wreckage the rusty piece with holes in at bottom left is the panel to control an electrically heated flying suit. The two plug sockets in the later photo fit into the two oval holes!

[BOB COLEMAN]

Bob i thought the Soviets would have been ok with the US in 44??

Rick

Unfortunately, that was not the case. Many POW camps in Eastern Europe holding US military personel were liberated by Soviet forces and marched East where they were used as slave labor or exploited for their technical skills. None of these individuals ever were repatriated to their homeland.
Michael Constandy, who has Westmorland Research in the Washington DC area, began his first research project looking for what had become of a great uncle who was declared missing in Eastern Europe as a USAAF crew member. He found in German records that he had been held in a POW camp that had been "liberated" by the Soviets. After the fall of Communism in Russia, Mike was able to search the old Soviet records and found his uncle had been executed in either 1949 or 1950.
Germans and other Axis prisoners were not the only victims of Uncle Joe Stalin. When it came to murder, his regime made the Nazis look like beginers.
Let us also not forget the case of the Swedish diplomat, Raoul Wallenberg, in Hungary who was taken by Soviet forces at the end of the war and never seen again. He was held in Lubianka Prison until his death in the mid 90's. Others say he was executed in 1947. For more information, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raoul_Wallenberg

[Steven M]

Bob i thought the Soviets would have been ok with the US in 44??

Rick

Hi Rick,

I don't think things were ever really "OK" with the Russian alliance, but for military success, they were needed at the time. Stalin was never a productive participant in being an ally, and was only tolerated and catered to in an attempt to ensure that there were no perceptions of trouble between the allies by the Axis. In short, he was a real pain in the butt. Otherwise, the results could have had disastrous results for the Allied powers. General Patton is said to have knowledge that US soldiers unfortunate enough to be caught behind enemy lines were taken prisoner by the Russians, never to be heard from again. Knowing this only fueled his hatred for the Russians at the time, and increased his desire to arm German prisoners and take the Russians while they were at their weakest point and we had such a massive troop presence in place. Unfortunately, he was viewed as a crackpot by those desiring to further political aspirations. If his suggested course of action and warnings had been heeded, the last 60 years of world history may have been very different.

[big ned]

Hi Fella's,

This is a very interesting thread. I've had a quick look through my 15th Airforce records and found some limited info on 44-41055.

All i can find is that the a/c went down over the Tamar mountain area with the loss of all crew bar one. He was rescued by partisans from Kranjska Gora. That's it i'm afraid, no bomber sqn, no mission details, no cause of loss, no names and no idea what happened to the lone survivor. I'll keep trying tomorrow.

A bit cheesed off, Ned.

[VERSUCH]

B24j 44-41055 from the 455th BG took off San Giovanni, Italy
on mission 157,22 NOV 1944 to bomb the marshalling yards
at VILLACH Austria,no flak seen or bombs dropped due bad
weather.1 aircraft lost on return leg last seen loosing height
and possibly on fire,no chutes seen,11 men missing.
Hope this helps
Regards Mike

[Dimas]

Very interesting.
First time I 'am hearing about the US allied in prisoners camps. Probably some can go to that camps after the cold war begins, but really there a lot of workers even in the late 40's from a States. If someone will missed in the Soviet camps , that will be immediate conflict with Allied US and Britain.
There was an US airbase in the central Russia, where the flying fortress and other aircrafts crossed Europe and re-tanked theyr planes. All the time there was a US crew, but guarded by soviets ( I heard that the guard was very happy to serve there a 100ds kilometers from war and to smoke US cigarettes)

[Ty Revelo]

This is a very controversial thread indeed. The Soviets although will never admit it used other allied supplies such as tanks, planes and what ever else to defeat the Nazi's. But it was no secret that the allied leaders and Stalin did not care for or trust each other.

In the case of missing service men not all commanders of the Soviet forces thought of the allies as enemy there fore were treated as an ally but on the other hand there were those who despised allied troops and kept them against their will. They seemed to carry a double sided sword. Sad but true.

Tyrone