Hitler/Goering train piece, reviews

[javierlorite]

I need help with this piece. Everything indicates that it belongs to the Hitler / Goring train.

marking of Bruckmann & Sohn, Heilbronn and silver 800. A curious piece

Does anyone know what it was used for?





























and a little more information I found

Sdr 4ü-43, 10 214 Bln - Salonwagen der Deutschen Reichsbahn vor 1945

Sdr 4ü-43, 10 214 Bln - Salonwagen der Deutschen Reichsbahn vor 1945

[drmessimer]

javierlorite: You might send an inquiry to the Deutsches Technikmuseum Berlin by accessing their web site at Stiftung Deutsches Technikmuseum Berlin - Startseite and using their inhouse contact email form. I am not certain that you can send photos using their contact form. If not, you could write to them at Trebbiner Str. 9, 10963 Berlin, Germany and include the photos. You can write them in English if you do not speak German. In the meantime, it would be helpful if you could add the measurements of that interesting object to your post. Good luck, Dwight

[javierlorite]

The measurements and the weight.

[drmessimer]

Javierlorite: I have taken the liberty to send one of your photos to the Deutsche Bahn Museum in Halle. Hopefully they will respond quickly. As soon as I receive an answer, I will post it here. In the meantime, I have a question. The cups look like a generic item for first-class servive; so what causes you to think that are related to either Hitler’s or Göring’s private train? Dwight

[drmessimer]

Javierlorite: I received this answer from the Deutsche Bahn Museum, "Vielen Dank für Ihre Anfrage, die wir unter der Nummer 2019/0514/2 erfasst haben. Ein Mitarbeiter der Sammlung wird sich zeitnah wieder mit Ihnen in Verbindung setzen." Basically, the question has been given a file number and a representative will be in contact. Dwight

[javierlorite]

Perfect, thank you very much.

in reference to the title, it was a generic title. It was not the most correct.

With the number of vagon, it would only be necessary to know in which train it was used. I think I read something somewhere, but I do not remember where.

[drmessimer]

Javierlorite: I suspect that you already have this information, but if you do not, I think you will find this useful. Salonwagen 10205 Bln was one of 13 such cars built by Wagenbauanstalt Wegmann & Co. in Kassel in 1937 for members of the Nazi government. 10205Bln was specifically built for Hermann Göring. On 1 June 1945, Salonwagen 10205Bln became a part of Hitler’s Sonderzug Brandenburg after his own Salonwagen, 10206 Bln was destroyed in an air raid. 10205 Bln survived the war and was used by the postwar American occupation forces until 1947 when it was taken over by the High Commissioner for Germany. Starting in 1953 the car was used in succession by Konrad Adenauer, Ludwig Erhard, Kurt Kiesinger, and Willy Brandt. It continued in use by German government officials until it until it became part of the Bundesbahn rolling stock during the 1970’s. It was retired 1990 and donated to the Haus der Geschichte in Bonn where it is today. There were also four special Salonspeisewagen built, one of which, 10241 Bln, was assigned to Göring’s Sonderzug Asien and Sonderzug Pommern.
Considering that the 13 cars built were used exclusive by high-ranking Nazi officials until 1945, it follows that the item you have posted might well have been used aboard one of the 13 cars. Dwight

The sources for this information are:
Walter Haberling, Ernst Andreas Weigert: Reichsbahn-Salonwagen. Bauarten und Einsätze zur Reichsbahn- und Bundesbahnzeit. „Eisenbahn-Kurier,’” Freiburg im Breisgau 2010, and Deutsche Reichsbahn (Hrsg.), Beschreibung des Salonwagens „Berlin 10205“ für den Dienstwagenzug der Reichsregierung. Berlin 1937.

[DavidRF43]

According to Jame Yanne's book "A Guide to 3rd Reich Cutlery, It's Monograms, Logos and Maker Marks", 214 was from enlisted men's dining car...as for what it was used for, the Encyclopedia of Third Reich Tableware in pages 194-195 have a similar piece that's noted as being a wine/mineral water bottle caddy,