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Reichskanzlei items

Article about: I have these two items that I bought some time ago. I was first offered them 25 years ago for 500 and told they were Red Cross.... hence the RK either side of the eagle. I eventually decide

  1. #1

    Default Reichskanzlei items

    I have these two items that I bought some time ago. I was first offered them 25 years ago for 500 and told they were Red Cross.... hence the RK either side of the eagle. I eventually decided I could not see them being Red Cross as the eagle was wrong for that, so I left them. They were duly sold to another collector and I forgot all about them until I spotted them on ebay being sold as Red Cross items a couple of years ago. I knew the seller so I called him and we discussed the Red Cross slant that had been put on them. He had put them on ebay with a starting bid of 525 which did not seem too bad after all the years that had passed. Anyway I said I would get back to him the following day if I could square away my Red Cross niggles over the items. Needless to say I still could not see them as Red Cross so I let them go by.
    About 3 months later a friend was showing me the latest Hermanns auction list.... and there over a couple of pages I saw the Red Cross silverware.... it was in fact from the Reichskanzlei. It all made sense, all those years and it had been staring me in the face and it just did not click. It was 11 at night by then so I could not call the guy who had had them to ask if they had sold on ebay or not. next morning I called him and he told me he got no bids and still had them and if I wanted them I could get them for what he paid for them.....500 the pair.... well the rest is history as they say.
    All the best from Jersey, Channel Islands.
    D
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  3. #2
    ?

    Default Re: Reichskanzlei items

    Very interesting , my knowledge of items like this is thin at best but if they were from the Reichskanzlei do you think that maybe the workmanship would have been better the engraving doesn't look the best ??

    cheers

    Paul
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  4. #3
    ?

    Default Re: Reichskanzlei items

    Interesting. My knowledge on these items is thinner than Paul's so shall reserve judgement but I hope they are what you think they are and shall follow the thread with interest. Thank you for posting.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Reichskanzlei items

    Well chaps, I am pleased I do have the edge on you both. There is no question as to what they are or where they originated. As you will see in one of the photograph's there in the background is the actual Hermanns auction catalogue showing an identical milk jug which they were selling and the other piece matches in design perfectly to the other piece in the picture that being a T pot and mine a coffee pot. As well as that Wellner was the known manufacturer of this particular set. For further reference to help you along the path if you go to Charles Snyder's website you will see similar pieces to mine that match exactly. I have no problems with these items, if I did they would not have made into the museums collection.

  6. #5
    ?

    Default Re: Reichskanzlei items

    You were doing so well until you mentioned Charlie Snyder!
    It is correct, they do match the photos in the catalogue but personally I would want more by way of provenance than a Hermann Historica catalogue or a Charlie Snyder reference.
    Try a search for Snyder here on the forum, his site is treated with derision by serious collectors due to the amount of fake and fantasy items he tries to sell. Don't forget, these items can be faked just as easily as any other.
    No disrespect to yourself intended and I genuinely hope they are the real thing.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Reichskanzlei items

    Unfortunately, I have to agree with Adrian here. I, too, was reading the posts with much interest and was thinking to myself "Nice pick up!" until the "S" name came up...it was like a cold water bucket. Definitely, more research is much needed for these 2 pieces! People should always remember that some counterfeits and outright fakes have Very long life times and will resurface again and again over the decades -each time picking up just a little bit more provenance and age. Just recently here on the forum, we had a badge show up out of the woodwork that was, in all probability, made 30-40 years ago in Holland but now has almost a half a century of travels and age to it. Alot of the top line experts were still fence sitting about it and no definitive conclusion was able to be drawn on it. Absolutely, the best of luck on these 2 pieces ! William
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  8. #7

    Default Re: Reichskanzlei items

    I was using them as a point of reference only. The 2 items i have came locally as in here in Jersey, Channel Islands and were brought back by a British Major who was in charge of all British military traffic in the British zone in Berlin. I have his paperwork from the time, as well as a large collection of paperwork and medals which he acquired during that time. I also have his documents relating to "Terminal".... that being the Victory Parade in Berlin in 1945. To go with that are a series of photo's he took inside the Reichsskanzlei as well as the victory Parade itself. The lot even included the Union Jack car pennant he removed from Churchills car as a souvenir and which is clearly seen in the photo's. There are even menu cards from the Potsdam Conference and 2 of Stalins cigarettes and one of Churchill's cigars which both leaders handed out after the conference. All in all I know what I have is original and can sleep easy with that in mind. The old major was a funny little chap and sported a tasch just like Hitler's which I always found amusing. The documents he had were superb and as a lot unquestionable. Thanks for your concern but please don't be.
    If you want to see more of my collection then go to Home

  9. #8
    ?

    Default Re: Reichskanzlei items

    I was in an antiques shop on the Austrian border earlier this summer and I noticed a silver tray that was "from the Fuhrerbunker". I politely asked for some more information and was shown the item (or an identical piece) on the Hermann catalogue he was proudly wielding. When I said I would think about it and moved to the door, the gentleman said "I have another at home, if you wait 2 mins I'll bring it." So, I waited. He brought another piece, very similar to the first tray, which I looked at too. Both pieces were marked similar to the items that are in your collection D, apart from AH replacing RK. Now, I don't know if they are original, but I must admit that my feeling was that they were not marked as well as I would have expected. I always thought that the AH should be present on Hitler's silverware and if not, and indeed the RK is correct, I'd expect it to be struck a little sharper than is shown above. I hope that you have genuine items but I'm not so sure.
    Hopefully, somebody can confirm the originality for you. It would be a super find if they are genuine pieces.

    Regards, and good luck!

    Carl

  10. #9
    ?

    Default Re: Reichskanzlei items

    If you have that sort of provenance and can trace the Major's whereabouts in Berlin and can be absolutely sure the silverware came back in his possession then I'm pleased for you.
    I hope someone who knows more about these can give them the once over and offer further thoughts.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Reichskanzlei items

    Who do you suggest?

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