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Third Reich Table Medal

Article about: Need your help with this one. Not sure about it. Here's some photo's. The table medal is close to about 2 1/4" around. It feels kinda heavy. It reads GROSSDEUTSCHLANDFLUG. WIEN 9 APRIL

  1. #21
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    Quote by ajax3985 View Post
    Its not a personal comment, pressed, stamped, struck, whatever, its the same thing. The process of manufacture for these pieces and their types are well known and their not cast, yet you keep saying things are cast so they must be fake. Well, this is not cast its "Struck". They are also manufactured in assorted materials and can behave differently in regard to finish and how it reacts to its base metal and its hardness or softness, etc. So, there you have it.
    Well, I never said that (the bolded portion), so that is a mischaracterization. I still have no doubt that the earlier souvenir plate to which you alluded is cast, unless the photos were horribly deceptive, but I never said it was fake. Likewise this medal has some characteristics that would suggest cast fake and some that would suggest cleaned original. The details are pretty good for a cast medal, so I'm tending toward real at the moment, but the fact is that the 'cragginess' (for lack of a better word) was not caused by any sort of hit or other contact. If it's real, that's probably caused be a delamination error. If you search Google for photos of coins with this same error, you'll find that they look similarly jagged.

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  3. #22

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    Quote by Erno View Post
    Well, I never said that (the bolded portion), so that is a mischaracterization. I still have no doubt that the earlier souvenir plate to which you alluded is cast, unless the photos were horribly deceptive, but I never said it was fake. Likewise this medal has some characteristics that would suggest cast fake and some that would suggest cleaned original. The details are pretty good for a cast medal, so I'm tending toward real at the moment, but the fact is that the 'cragginess' (for lack of a better word) was not caused by any sort of hit or other contact. If it's real, that's probably caused be a delamination error. If you search Google for photos of coins with this same error, you'll find that they look similarly jagged.
    Alright, well if I misquoted you I am sorry and will go back and look. But I am sure your aware that German industry was far ahead of the world in the use of alloys and metals from the 20's and 30's, long before the war. So you have people that could essentially press or "Strike" a dog turd into a gleaming piece of beauty and that is no lie. The transitions made vary greatly from the common and not so common and even porcelain. So what the piece will look like 80 years later will depend on that material and its life for 80 years. It could be that way for any number of reasons. The use of photo's can be misleading and prohibitive, unless in some cases your familiar with the pieces and then you can adjust for photos, but not always. I do not know what happened to this piece, don't know the base material, or why is has that appearance. But it has every indication of being "Struck" and not cast.

  4. #23
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    Listen gang lets call a spade a spade, the table medal is period and lets leave it at that - I like it, lots of detail and a great addition to a collection - So lets move on.
    Horst
    "He who hesitates is lost - is not only lost but miles from the next exit"

  5. #24

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Horst,

    Well, lets look at the tools used for these so people get an idea of what the Germans were doing. They were using these for common tinnies and medals. Your base medals could be anything. I cant find the other photos but this is one your looking at.

  6. #25
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    Quote by ajax3985 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	82738.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	74.9 KB 
ID:	684596

    Horst,

    Well, lets look at the tools used for these so people get an idea of what the Germans were doing. They were using these for common tinnies and medals. Your base medals could be anything. I cant find the other photos but this is one your looking at.
    Right on lets keep pounding-
    "He who hesitates is lost - is not only lost but miles from the next exit"

  7. #26
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    Quote by ajax3985 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	82738.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	74.9 KB 
ID:	684596

    Horst,

    Well, lets look at the tools used for these so people get an idea of what the Germans were doing. They were using these for common tinnies and medals. Your base medals could be anything. I cant find the other photos but this is one your looking at.
    The fact that these exist should be frightening to all who collect such items. The Gau Thüringen die on the right is actually a working hub, so it could be used to make working dies (like the one just to the left) and cause a lot of damage. In fact, if these are all real, several of them are working hubs.

  8. #27

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    Their real and an auction lot that I believe went unsold. There were others as well.

  9. #28

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    Well, You can have these dies but it does not help much - there are even in Europe very few people who can still work with them and produce for example even a decent EK or some other III Reich award. Old skills have gone forever or are gone very soon. So it is almost the same than to give to the monky a MG - a monky with a machinegun is still a monky, not a solder. So these dies are useless. Unless you have the old jewellery workshop, people who still know how tu use such stuff, knowledge where to sell the producion etc.

    PS. This medal is 100% original in my opinion.

  10. #29

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    Sorry. I haven't been on here in a while due to being away and not having the luxury of internet usage. Didn't know this would create such a stir. I can tell you which I should have posted originally is that this item was found in a cigar box after a basement flood (how long it stayed in the basement afterwards I don't know). I should have taken before and after photo's. I basically just tried to clean the grime off with a rotary toothbrush. I know I'm no expert on restoration but after first seeing the silver color come out I couldn't help myself. Hope this adds a little to the mystery and sorry for being gone so long. Best regards

  11. #30

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    Sorry to bump this. So would the flooding cause the damage that is seen on this table medal?

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