Waffen-SS ladle — fake or authentic?

**DianaGaleM** · 08-30-2013, 12:28 AM

I'm a collector of WMF (Württembergische Metallwarenfabrik AG, of Geislingen, Germany) tableware, which has led me to discover — with no surprise — that many Third Reich notables and organizations owned WMF flatware. I was every happy to find this forum because I would like to purchase some pieces for my collection, and I'm learning from you what a hazardous venture this can be. I had wanted to bring up some other issues, first, but time is pressing me to bring this one up, now.

There is a piece of allegedly "Waffen-SS" flatware currently for sale on eBay, in an auction ending in about 15 hours. I gleefully bid on it, then found myself relieved that I'm being outbid, because — thanks to your warnings — I realize my belief that it must be genuine was naive. I would very much appreciate having a discussion as to the potential authenticity of the piece. It is Item #251326188045 at eBay.com by a seller in Lithuania.

On the plus side, it does seem the engraving/stamping on the piece is internally corroded, that is, it doesn't look newer than the piece. On the down side, I'm very familiar with WMF patterns, and I don't recognize this one — not a fatal flaw as I'm sure I haven't seen *every* WMF pattern. The other thing that bothers me is that the WMF stamp is *like* the real one, and this logo is legitimate for the time period, it does look crudely made, as if possibly faked.

See samples of manufacturer's marks:
Marks of European Silver Plate: VI. WMF Wrttembergische Metallwarenfabrik , Germany: an article on ASCAS: Association of Small Collectors of Antique Silver website

Please share with me your opinions on the authenticity of this piece. If the price doesn't get bid too high, I may buy it, anyway, just as an example of a fake.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 08-30-2013 12:28 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**CARL** · 08-30-2013, 01:17 AM

Welcome to the forum Diana,

Plenty of decent folk should be able to help your queries whilst you are with us - and will be only too glad to do so. Can you please post the images onto the thread? If not, then when the link is out of date or deleted, this thread will also be useless.

Regards,

Carl

**DianaGaleM** · 08-30-2013, 01:20 AM

I'm afraid the images at eBay are copyrighted, so I can't post them. Sorry. If I buy the item, I will take and post images.

**CARL** · 08-30-2013, 01:24 AM

by DianaGaleM

I'm afraid the images at eBay are copyrighted, so I can't post them. Sorry. If I buy the item, I will take and post images.

Can you post a link to the item that you are considering then please? Members will then be able to offer their opinions.

**Adrian** · 08-30-2013, 01:34 AM

Welcome to the forum Diana.

Here are the photos, I can't see any problem posting them for discussion and as Carl says, it's always best to post images because when the auction ends or ebay pull it we won't know the subject of the thread.

My personal opinion is that it's an old ladle that has had a 'Waffen-SS' mark added to it to enhance the value. I'm not sure this mark in this way would be used on period SS tableware but there are those here more knowledgeable than myself on the subject.

**bigmacglenn** · 08-30-2013, 01:46 AM

Not a pattern I've ever noticed on mess-silver before...it's rather unique, "civilian" in my opinion, lol...
cheers, Glenn

**Walkwolf** · 08-30-2013, 02:02 AM

I agree with Adrian and Glenn - It looks like an embellished civilian piece.........

**DianaGaleM** · 08-30-2013, 02:27 AM

Thank you for uploading the images, Adrian. And thanks to all of you for the opinions. I remain very glad I got outbid.

Two other things occurred to me after I posted my initial message. One is that I don't recall ever seeing this particular manufacturer's mark stamped so that it reads vertically on the handle — I only recall reading it with the handle held horizontally, and always with the tip to the right and the bowl to the left. The other is that the seller seems to have chosen to photograph the piece at a distance or, if close up, at an acute angle. Not that there isn't a lot of crummy photography in eBay listings, but if the seller's camera has a macro lens, it certainly wasn't used to good advantage in displaying the piece.

Thanks again.

**DianaGaleM** · 09-01-2013, 12:48 AM

Here's another "WW2 WMF" piece on eBay from the same seller in Lithuania. I'm still chicken to post the images — I have a 100% compliance, "Top Seller" rating at eBay that I don't want to jeopardize. You can view the listing by searching on the item number at eBay.com:

281156859392

My main interest is WMF flatware, so I can't speak to whether this model ashtray was ever sold by WMF, but I can say that it is unusual — just as with the ladle — for the material not to be stamped on it (e.g., "90" for silverplate or "Cromargan" for stainless, etc.). So the question I have is about the "monogram." What does it stand for, and is it plausible for the era?