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Rare Hungarian M16

Article about: Hi Theo, it works for me Cheers, Ade.

  1. #1
    Caseydiggz
    ?

    Default Rare Hungarian M16

    I believe this is a variant of the Hungarian M16, and that these helmets are quite rare, sought after, and valuable. I think this because I have spent 2 years looking on eBay for another exactly like mine and one came up identical to mine, being sold as a hungarian m16, and it sold for $463.00. I have not found any of these on any collectors website so I am wondering:

    1. Is it Hungarian M16?
    2. If not, then what is it?
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  2. #2
    ?

    Default Re: Rare Hungarian M16

    hello!
    this is an austrian m-17 helmet made from berndorf.
    it has to be a little stamped "bear" symbol in the neck of the helmet.
    greets lir2

  3. #3
    Caseydiggz
    ?

    Default Re: Rare Hungarian M16

    Ok so umm...........anyway the Austrian m17 is a possibility but the berndorfer maker mark is nowhere to be found.

  4. #4
    Caseydiggz
    ?

    Default Re: Rare Hungarian M16

    and the austrian m17 has a rivet in front of the lug, right?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  5. #5
    ?

    Default Re: Rare Hungarian M16

    Quote by Caseydiggz View Post
    I believe this is a variant of the Hungarian M16, and that these helmets are quite rare, sought after, and valuable. I think this because I have spent 2 years looking on eBay for another exactly like mine and one came up identical to mine, being sold as a hungarian m16, and it sold for $463.00. I have not found any of these on any collectors website so I am wondering:

    1. Is it Hungarian M16?
    2. If not, then what is it?
    Hi, I believe this to be a Hungarian M18 Helmet. Don't know if it is any more valuable or rare than normal.
    Cheers
    Andy

  6. #6

    Default Re: Rare Hungarian M16

    Gentlemen, IMO this is not an Austro-Hungarian M16, Austrian M16's were made after WW1 (after the demise of the Austro-Hungarian Empire) and used by the Austrian Police, having a meshed over type vent hole instead of the protruding vent lugs, (they got there designation from the fact that they reverted back to all leather liners) and there was no such helmet as an 'Austro-Hungarian M18 helmet'. During WW1 Austro-Hungary used supplies of German M16's and then produced their own M17 helmets, based on the German design but with differances, prior to this they had manufactured the M16 Berndorf helmet, A design nothing like the German M16 !.....Caseydiggz your helmet has no chinstrap bail rivets (like a German M18), it does not have liner rivets in the same position as the helmets I have described above, what are the holes/rivets positioned behind the vent lugs for ?....I have never seen either a German or an Austro-Hungarian helmet with this configuration before !.....I do know that Finnish and Afghan M16/17/18's were altered, sometimes the vent lugs and M91 chinstrap lugs being removed, and extra holes added in order to accomodate their style of liners and chinstrap fittings. Caseydiggz, if this a rare varient, it is that rare, that in forty odd years of collecting ive never seen one before. IMO this helmet needs to be examined 'hands on' or more detailed close-up photos posted of the inside especially around those rivets/holes (in order to determine if any 'filling' of holes has been done). It should be maker marked and have a heating lot number stamped into the crown (inside or outside!). It looks to be a size 62/64.
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

  7. #7
    ?

    Default Re: Rare Hungarian M16

    A very informative and well researched response as always!! Thanks mate.
    Andy

  8. #8
    Caseydiggz
    ?

    Default Re: Rare Hungarian M16

    I will try to get detailed pictures up tonight

  9. #9
    ?

    Default Re: Rare Hungarian M16

    The Austro-Hungarian Empire manufactured M16 helmet in WWI. It is caller sometimes also Austrian M17. Outside it looks just like the German made M16, but the rivets for the chinstrap are situated a little higher from the rim. And yes, they produced the Berndorfer helmet in the same time, which is clearly different in shape from the M16 and has one lug, on the top.

    And now to the Hungarian helmet. Yes there was such a helmet, known today as Hungarian M17. It is a very rare helmet. I do not know how exactly the Hungarian forces were separated inside the A-H imperial army, but this helmet is known as Hungarian M17. The shape was the same like the German M16, but the two front liner rivets were situated very much backwards, behind the vent lugs. The Hungarians did the same in the 1930's, they purchased the patent for the German M35 helmet shell, but installed their own liner, situating the liner rivets again on the same spot, to the back, behind the air vents.

    Here is my Hungarian M17. Outside it looks just like a German M16, if not counting the different placement of the rivets. There are two permanently attached rivets on the sides and one hole for an ordinary rivet on the back side.
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    Last edited by Sokol; 07-03-2010 at 09:23 PM.

  10. #10
    ?

    Default Re: Rare Hungarian M16

    Now don't laugh at my painting abilities , but I tried to put together a small scheme, showing the difference between the German M16, Austrian M16 /M17/ and the Hungarian M17. They all share the same shell, but the rivets are placed in a different way.

    BTW the Hungarian M17 has no chinstrap rivets at all, the chinstrap was attached to the liner. So was the German M18, chinstrap attached to the liner, thus no chinstrap rivets.
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