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FAKE World War I Imperial German Flight Badges

Article about: Here is another fake Bavarian Observer badge, but not a very good one. The fixtures on the rear are modern, and the overall detail of the badge is poor. The crown is ill-proportioned and the

  1. #21

    Default Re: FAKE World War I Imperial German Flight Badges

    For comparison, here is an original Meybauer badge featuring their trademark pin...note the differences.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    [B][COLOR=Black][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][I] Steve[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

    [CENTER][I][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=orange]Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [/I][/CENTER]
    [B]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=lemonchiffon][I][CENTER][FONT=Georgia]"Fly on dear boy, from this dark world of strife. On to the promised land to eternal life"[/FONT][/CENTER]
    [/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

  2. #22

    Default Re: FAKE World War I Imperial German Flight Badges

    Steven, Great thread and very well done. As they say when you think you've seen everything........ Thanks for the great info. John

  3. #23

    Default Re: FAKE World War I Imperial German Flight Badges

    Quote by johnhmcgary View Post
    Steven, Great thread and very well done. As they say when you think you've seen everything........ Thanks for the great info. John
    Thanks John. I hate to see collectors buy fake badges for ridiculous amounts of money. Hopefully, this will help would-be buyers to at least think a little harder and ask some questions before pulling the trigger on a piece.
    [B][COLOR=Black][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][I] Steve[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

    [CENTER][I][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=orange]Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [/I][/CENTER]
    [B]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=lemonchiffon][I][CENTER][FONT=Georgia]"Fly on dear boy, from this dark world of strife. On to the promised land to eternal life"[/FONT][/CENTER]
    [/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

  4. #24

    Default Re: FAKE World War I Imperial German Flight Badges

    Quote by Steven M View Post
    Excellent point Major. Here is a reference photo of a GOOD badge that illustrates what you pointed out above.
    Steve,
    Attached are a few more pictures of real vs fake.
    Real Meybauer Observer Reverse
    Fake Meybauer Pilot Reverse
    Real Bavarian Aerial Gunner Reverse
    Fake Bavarian Reverse
    Real Bavarian Obvserver Reverse

    Notice the hinge wells on each badge, as well a pins etc. I noticed that pictures didn't load in sequence above. But I am sure you all can see the difference between the badges. The first one is the Fake Meybauer Pilot and the third one is a fake bavarian.

    Execllent thread you have going here.

    Terry
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WW1 Fake Meybauer Pilot R.jpg 
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Name:	WW1 Real Bavaraian  aerial gunner R.jpg 
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Attached Images Attached Images  

  5. #25

    Default Re: FAKE World War I Imperial German Flight Badges

    Quote by harryamb2 View Post
    what Iam saying is you cannot trust dealers,I knpow them.
    Hi,

    While I do agree that there are some individuals that have long been recognized as crooks, a badge, or any other item should be judged on its originality based on the appearance of the features that distinguish a good from a bad. If a crooked dealer has a good badge, that doesn't make the badge bad, and a bad badge at a 'big name" dealer doesn't make it a good one. also, there are some that truly are not knowledgeable about what they have, and there is no ill-will or deceit being deliberately practiced.

    The point of this thread is not to slam individuals, as I stated in my opening post, that is why I removed the dealer name from a few of the photos. We must learn to evaluate items based on our knowledge and to some extent, other collectors who we know are more versed in areas than ourselves.

    Not to get too far off topic, but for the reasons stated above, when I have purchased a badge from dealers who send a certificate of authenticity, I tell them to keep it. No legitimate item needs to be justified by a scrap of paper declaring it as "good"...
    [B][COLOR=Black][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][I] Steve[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

    [CENTER][I][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=orange]Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [/I][/CENTER]
    [B]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=lemonchiffon][I][CENTER][FONT=Georgia]"Fly on dear boy, from this dark world of strife. On to the promised land to eternal life"[/FONT][/CENTER]
    [/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

  6. #26

    Default Re: FAKE World War I Imperial German Flight Badges

    Quote by hawk3370 View Post
    Steve,
    Attached are a few more pictures of real vs fake.
    Real Meybauer Observer Reverse
    Fake Meybauer Pilot Reverse
    Real Bavarian Aerial Gunner Reverse
    Fake Bavarian Reverse
    Real Bavarian Obvserver Reverse

    Notice the hinge wells on each badge, as well a pins etc. I noticed that pictures didn't load in sequence above. But I am sure you all can see the difference between the badges. The first one is the Fake Meybauer Pilot and the third one is a fake bavarian.

    Execllent thread you have going here.

    Terry
    Many thanks for the posting Major. The side by side views are very helpful!
    [B][COLOR=Black][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][I] Steve[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

    [CENTER][I][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=orange]Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [/I][/CENTER]
    [B]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=lemonchiffon][I][CENTER][FONT=Georgia]"Fly on dear boy, from this dark world of strife. On to the promised land to eternal life"[/FONT][/CENTER]
    [/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

  7. #27

    Default Re: FAKE World War I Imperial German Flight Badges

    Steven M, you are quite right, as i said in my earlier post buy from a reputable/well established dealer, this thread is a learning curve for a much copied badge, and as such is a valuable tool for the unknowledgeble amongst us (including me !)......digest and learn.

  8. #28

    Default Re: FAKE World War I Imperial German Flight Badges

    Here is a fake screw back version of the Prussian Pilot Badge supposedly made by CE Juncker, Berlin. Again, note the tick mark on the lower right of the crown well. Note the hallmark combination as referenced earlier. This "clam shell" fixture is found quite frequently on several different types of Imperial and Third Reich awards, especially wound badges and the Iron Cross 1st Class.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fake Prussian Screw Back Pilot Badge Rev.jpg 
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ID:	81691  
    [B][COLOR=Black][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][I] Steve[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

    [CENTER][I][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=orange]Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [/I][/CENTER]
    [B]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=lemonchiffon][I][CENTER][FONT=Georgia]"Fly on dear boy, from this dark world of strife. On to the promised land to eternal life"[/FONT][/CENTER]
    [/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

  9. #29

    Default Re: FAKE World War I Imperial German Flight Badges

    Using a photo posted by Maj. Morris above...

    Here is another element of detecting a questionable badge that we haven't discussed yet. Look at the finish, I have yet to see a legitimate example "age" like the one below. This crazing or blotchy effect to the finish seems to be a characteristic found only on questionable/fake badges. It may indicate a low grade or poor mixture of metals - hence the effect. Or, it could be the result of a chemical process that is used to simulate age and tarnish. Has anyone else noticed this?


    Also, I would like to point out the green area around the lower **weep hole on the badge, near the catch. This could indicate a very low silver content or a mixture of brass, nickel and other elements. However, there are some period badges that are not 800 silver or higher, and and not marked for content, so this is not an automatic indicator of a fake.


    **Vent/weep holes**

    BTW...in case some don't know why these holes are found on the reverse of two piece badges....

    The process used to join both halves of a badge is the same for original AND fake badges as well. The way that these are constructed is that a front plate and a reverse plate are "married" together by soldering around the entire perimeter of the badge, leaving an air space in between. Since this process involves heat, there must be a route of escape for cooling to take place. This is why the holes are there, and they are usually placed at opposite ends of the badge, one by the hinge, and one by the catch.

    If one was to solder these two plates together without a means of escape for the hot gases from the soldering process, the end result would be a twisted and buckled badge, badly distorted from the heat. If done correctly, the seam is nearly impossible to detect once it is finished.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WW1 Fake Meybauer Pilot R.jpg 
Views:	76 
Size:	141.3 KB 
ID:	81692  
    Last edited by Steven M; 02-03-2010 at 11:01 PM.
    [B][COLOR=Black][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][I] Steve[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

    [CENTER][I][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=orange]Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [/I][/CENTER]
    [B]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=lemonchiffon][I][CENTER][FONT=Georgia]"Fly on dear boy, from this dark world of strife. On to the promised land to eternal life"[/FONT][/CENTER]
    [/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

  10. #30

    Default Re: FAKE World War I Imperial German Flight Badges

    Here is yet another fake Bavarian Pilot Badge. Apart from the crude casting, this type of pin fixture was never used during the period, and can be found on many other fake badges much more crude than this one. When you see this pin...RUN!

    As an aside, the case is modern and in no way resembles an original style case.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Cast Bavarian Badge Rev.JPG 
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ID:	83931   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Cast Bavarian Badge In Case.JPG 
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ID:	83932  

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    [B][COLOR=Black][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][I] Steve[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

    [CENTER][I][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=orange]Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [/I][/CENTER]
    [B]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=lemonchiffon][I][CENTER][FONT=Georgia]"Fly on dear boy, from this dark world of strife. On to the promised land to eternal life"[/FONT][/CENTER]
    [/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

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