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Post Your ORIGINAL WWI Allied Forces Metal & Bullion Wings/Badges!

Article about: Thanks very much for posting. Do you have a straight on shot of it?

  1. #21
    Brindlereo
    ?

    Default Re: Post Your WWI Allied Forces Metal & Bullion Wings/Badges!

    Just a few cents from me. I am by no means an expert on anything of this period, let alone wings. Too me the first set looks like something I might have made in my spare time. It looks to be made by the end user. It is very sloppy on the reverse as though it was done by an amature. Now, would this disqualify it as a period piece, or make it a fake or repro?

    Mark

  2. #22

    Default Re: Post Your WWI Allied Forces Metal & Bullion Wings/Badges!

    Quote by Brindlereo View Post
    Just a few cents from me. I am by no means an expert on anything of this period, let alone wings. Too me the first set looks like something I might have made in my spare time. It looks to be made by the end user. It is very sloppy on the reverse as though it was done by an amature. Now, would this disqualify it as a period piece, or make it a fake or repro?

    Mark
    Hi Mark,

    Thanks for the follow up. Not claiming to be an "expert" is a good thing in my opinion, as that phrase means there is nothing more to learn and the journey has ended...I for one hope to never become an expert.

    You make a good point about being a home made/end user piece. However, the skill needed to create a piece from bullion is not one easily undertaken by an individual with no experience in doing so. In my opinion, a fake and a repro are one in the same - unless a reproduction/filler is clearly and permanently marked as such, then there is no difference as I assume the intended purpose is to deceive. Personally, I would rather have nothing at all than a "repro". Unfortunately, there are outfits in countries like Pakistan that have been schooled in the art of creating bullion for the purpose of deceit and have been turning them out for years. They have some basic understanding of the process of creating a wing, but (usually) do not invest the time and pride in their creation as quality of the period is not the intent. This example in my mind represent just that.

    Another observation that I have made is that nearly all of the fake/repro wings I have seen are on black felt or wool. Though we see the majority of period originals on the same color backing, Special Regulation 41 put forth by Maj. Henry Arnold in May of 1917 specifically stated that the backing was to be blue. Does this mean that the majority of original attributed wings on black that we see should be suspect...no, as immediately wing makers of bullion and silver metal wings (not authorized initially) took artistic liberties and started appearing right away. Pilots, being the personalities that they were, disregarded regulations and commissioned jewelers to make custom examples of all shapes and sizes in silver because bullion did not stand up well to wear in flight over a period of time (as you know I am sure, there are many period war time photos that show metal wings). I said all of that to say this, The people who make these are out to make a buck off of the unsuspecting. If they did their homework, they wold produce them on blue, and invest some time in quality and age the pieces. If done properly, it would be extremely difficult to detect as a fake. But again, they are looking to make a quick buck off of the examples produced cheaply by labor workers, laziness is the character of most fakers.

    I should also add (for my own satisfaction sake) that I don't mean in any way to say that Erick is one to fall prey for lack of knowledge or effort on his part in my statements here. I know him as a very knowledgeable collector in several areas.

    Once again, my statements are merely a culmination of the experiences that I have had to this point, and I could be possibly off the mark in some areas. I am always learning something new in this area as I study intensely to try to identify the good from the bad.
    [B][COLOR=Black][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][I] Steve[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

    [CENTER][I][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=orange]Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [/I][/CENTER]
    [B]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=lemonchiffon][I][CENTER][FONT=Georgia]"Fly on dear boy, from this dark world of strife. On to the promised land to eternal life"[/FONT][/CENTER]
    [/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

  3. #23

    Default Re: Post Your WWI Allied Forces Metal & Bullion Wings/Badges!

    Well, I suppose....

    I guess it's about time I post a little something. WWI? Post Armistice? I'm still trying to figure out this set.

    These are the only 'wings' in my collection. If I stop trying to pick up every unusual collar disk/insignia, I just might find a nice set...
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #24

    Default Re: Post Your WWI Allied Forces Metal & Bullion Wings/Badges!

    Quote by CThomas View Post
    Well, I suppose....

    I guess it's about time I post a little something. WWI? Post Armistice? I'm still trying to figure out this set.

    These are the only 'wings' in my collection. If I stop trying to pick up every unusual collar disk/insignia, I just might find a nice set...
    Stop buying collar discs...yea, right.

    Chuck, what are the measurements on this piece? Perhaps some close up shots of the hinge and catch - also of the pin closest to the hinge.
    [B][COLOR=Black][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][I] Steve[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

    [CENTER][I][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=orange]Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [/I][/CENTER]
    [B]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=lemonchiffon][I][CENTER][FONT=Georgia]"Fly on dear boy, from this dark world of strife. On to the promised land to eternal life"[/FONT][/CENTER]
    [/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

  5. #25

    Default Re: Post Your WWI Allied Forces Metal & Bullion Wings/Badges!

    Anyone else out there have any input/opinion/advice for my friend Erick (post #19)?
    [B][COLOR=Black][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][I] Steve[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

    [CENTER][I][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=orange]Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [/I][/CENTER]
    [B]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=lemonchiffon][I][CENTER][FONT=Georgia]"Fly on dear boy, from this dark world of strife. On to the promised land to eternal life"[/FONT][/CENTER]
    [/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

  6. #26
    ?

    Default Re: Post Your WWI Allied Forces Metal & Bullion Wings/Badges!

    Thanks to everyone for their comments on my two wings. Well, I think we can all agree that the pilot's wing is a repro. The observer's wing is still questionable but leaning towards repro. While it would be have been great for both of these to be original, it would have surprised me to no end. No worries about these being fake, I didn't mortgage the farm to buy them, rather I have less than USD $50.00 for the pair. These wings are used in my aviation displays, so if someone walks away with them, I am not out that much. Thanks again for everone's comments!

    Quote by Steven M View Post
    Hi Mark,

    Thanks for the follow up. Not claiming to be an "expert" is a good thing in my opinion, as that phrase means there is nothing more to learn and the journey has ended...I for one hope to never become an expert.

    You make a good point about being a home made/end user piece. However, the skill needed to create a piece from bullion is not one easily undertaken by an individual with no experience in doing so. In my opinion, a fake and a repro are one in the same - unless a reproduction/filler is clearly and permanently marked as such, then there is no difference as I assume the intended purpose is to deceive. Personally, I would rather have nothing at all than a "repro". Unfortunately, there are outfits in countries like Pakistan that have been schooled in the art of creating bullion for the purpose of deceit and have been turning them out for years. They have some basic understanding of the process of creating a wing, but (usually) do not invest the time and pride in their creation as quality of the period is not the intent. This example in my mind represent just that.

    Another observation that I have made is that nearly all of the fake/repro wings I have seen are on black felt or wool. Though we see the majority of period originals on the same color backing, Special Regulation 41 put forth by Maj. Henry Arnold in May of 1917 specifically stated that the backing was to be blue. Does this mean that the majority of original attributed wings on black that we see should be suspect...no, as immediately wing makers of bullion and silver metal wings (not authorized initially) took artistic liberties and started appearing right away. Pilots, being the personalities that they were, disregarded regulations and commissioned jewelers to make custom examples of all shapes and sizes in silver because bullion did not stand up well to wear in flight over a period of time (as you know I am sure, there are many period war time photos that show metal wings). I said all of that to say this, The people who make these are out to make a buck off of the unsuspecting. If they did their homework, they wold produce them on blue, and invest some time in quality and age the pieces. If done properly, it would be extremely difficult to detect as a fake. But again, they are looking to make a quick buck off of the examples produced cheaply by labor workers, laziness is the character of most fakers.

    I should also add (for my own satisfaction sake) that I don't mean in any way to say that Erick is one to fall prey for lack of knowledge or effort on his part in my statements here. I know him as a very knowledgeable collector in several areas.

    Once again, my statements are merely a culmination of the experiences that I have had to this point, and I could be possibly off the mark in some areas. I am always learning something new in this area as I study intensely to try to identify the good from the bad.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Post Your WWI Allied Forces Metal & Bullion Wings/Badges!

    Steven,
    "If you build it they will come!" Heard that somewhere before.
    You have some magnificant WW1 Aviation material, a significant collection to be sure.
    Attached is Lt. Henry Clay's wing and 1st Mod British DFC ribbon. The wing is bullion with white ribbed silk in the shield. Lt. Clay was credited with 8 1/2 kills, he served with Nr 43 Squadron RFC, US 148th and 41st Aero Squadrons. He died of flu complications shortly after assuming Command of the 41st Squadron in France 1919.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Henry Clay 003.jpg 
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Size:	96.0 KB 
ID:	67070  

  8. #28

    Default Re: Post Your WWI Allied Forces Metal & Bullion Wings/Badges!

    Very possible a sweetheart wing. There have been several wings of this nature showing up in the past couple years, some hanging from a spread wing eagle and some sporting a son in service bar below the prop. The enlisted aviators wore an embroidered wing of this same design however it was 5 inches across.

    Terry

  9. #29

    Default Re: Post Your WWI Allied Forces Metal & Bullion Wings/Badges!

    Quote by hawk3370 View Post
    Steven,
    "If you build it they will come!" Heard that somewhere before.
    You have some magnificant WW1 Aviation material, a significant collection to be sure.
    Attached is Lt. Henry Clay's wing and 1st Mod British DFC ribbon. The wing is bullion with white ribbed silk in the shield. Lt. Clay was credited with 8 1/2 kills, he served with Nr 43 Squadron RFC, US 148th and 41st Aero Squadrons. He died of flu complications shortly after assuming Command of the 41st Squadron in France 1919.
    Major,

    Thank you, that means a lot coming from you. I am very glad to see you posting here, and I hope to see more of your fabulous collection.

    You picked a super wing with some incredible history to feature as a first posting here!
    [B][COLOR=Black][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][I] Steve[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

    [CENTER][I][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=orange]Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [/I][/CENTER]
    [B]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=lemonchiffon][I][CENTER][FONT=Georgia]"Fly on dear boy, from this dark world of strife. On to the promised land to eternal life"[/FONT][/CENTER]
    [/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

  10. #30

    Default Re: Post Your WWI Allied Forces Metal & Bullion Wings/Badges!

    Here is a wing that is labeled for the Armstrong Uniform Co. out of Chicago. This wing is nearly identical in design to the one I show in post #3 of this thread, and I do believe that mine is a product of that company as well. My example is sewn to the tunic of Lt. Charles Hill.
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    [B][COLOR=Black][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][I] Steve[/I][/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

    [CENTER][I][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=orange]Did you ever get the feeling that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [/I][/CENTER]
    [B]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=lemonchiffon][I][CENTER][FONT=Georgia]"Fly on dear boy, from this dark world of strife. On to the promised land to eternal life"[/FONT][/CENTER]
    [/I][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

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