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Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

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  1. #371

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Thanx Franz
    I know-you understand it. I wait for news from you on mine e-mail

  2. #372
    ian
    ian is offline
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    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    GENTLE MEN i say this all soldiers no mater who be them friend or foe ,no mater what there sinse , they are still soldiers and as such , there remains should be treated with respect,no country in this world ,in any part of history has not had atrosaties involved in there warfare ,but they are ,were soldiers and they deserve the respect for the dead , who ever they are and what ever there history , god will love ,and forgive .
    we only have to and must remember the loss and the futility
    and as such ALL must be found and bueried with respect no matter what
    IAN

  3. #373

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by ian View Post
    GENTLE MEN i say this all soldiers no mater who be them friend or foe ,no mater what there sinse , they are still soldiers and as such , there remains should be treated with respect,no country in this world ,in any part of history has not had atrosaties involved in there warfare ,but they are ,were soldiers and they deserve the respect for the dead , who ever they are and what ever there history , god will love ,and forgive .
    we only have to and must remember the loss and the futility
    and as such ALL must be found and bueried with respect no matter what
    IAN
    Jan, you absolutely right!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #374

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    I myself have no sympathy for any of the SS Nord dead. Indeed the term Quisling was coined to describe Norwegian traitors of their own country and if the same had happened in Britain and Mosely had his fascists join the SS, I would have expected the British to have executed them as traitors. I therefore do not share the view that the SS dead should be repatriated and therefore the best option would be cremating the bones and disposing of the ashes in a place that is unknown to any neonazis. The SS have done many unspeakable crimes and do not deserve any memorial in my opinion.

    What kind of a thing is that to say? Talk about tarring with the same brush, show a bit of respect would you?? EVERY side has done unspeakable things.......

    Fantastic thread by the way, has me captivated in a way lol

  5. #375

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    I do appreciate that the guys who have been locating, recording, researching and trying to repatriate the bodies of all the soldiers in Karelia have evry right to do so including the methods used and means involved.

    With regards to my comments regarding the disposal, that is my own opinion. It is a fact that the Nuremburg War Trials concluded that the Waffen SS was a criminal organisation as detailed in Airey Neaves book.

    It is also a fact that the 6th SS Mountain division Nord were volunteer soldiers, not conscripts.

    The Norwegian Gov't today would not want these lost soldiers repatriated home as they were regarded as traitors to their own people. In case most people are not aware, Knut Haukelid the famous Norwegian resistance fighter who along with his colleagues
    destroyed the Heavy Water hydro plant at Telemark was actually born in New York.

    If the bodies were repatriated they would according to the gov't become shrines to neonazis. I have no problem with them being buried in a cemetery in Karelia - not sure even neo nazis would travel 2000 miles just to pay homage.

    If they had been ordinary wermacht soldiers, they would of course have the right to be repatriated. Waffen SS do not have that right as enschrined in the Nuremburg ruling, all members were stigmatized even if none had been directly involved in war crimes, or used the often quoted claim that they were simply following orders. That is why the Nazi symbols are banned and possession a criminal offence in Germany.

    It is pointless pontificating as I was merely given my own opinion - unfortunately the cult of SS relics collecting brings both supporters and detractors just as there are two sides to every story and never the twain do meet.

    From an archeological point of view, the fascination with the dig is the possibility of recording in full the injuries sustained,the range of the weapons used, tactics deployed during the fighting and the logistics of moving soldiers in that kind of terrain. The photos are well taken and I hope to see more in future.

  6. #376

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by shuggymac1 View Post
    I do appreciate that the guys who have been locating, recording, researching and trying to repatriate the bodies of all the soldiers in Karelia have evry right to do so including the methods used and means involved.

    With regards to my comments regarding the disposal, that is my own opinion. It is a fact that the Nuremburg War Trials concluded that the Waffen SS was a criminal organisation as detailed in Airey Neaves book.

    It is also a fact that the 6th SS Mountain division Nord were volunteer soldiers, not conscripts.

    The Norwegian Gov't today would not want these lost soldiers repatriated home as they were regarded as traitors to their own people. In case most people are not aware, Knut Haukelid the famous Norwegian resistance fighter who along with his colleagues
    destroyed the Heavy Water hydro plant at Telemark was actually born in New York.

    If the bodies were repatriated they would according to the gov't become shrines to neonazis. I have no problem with them being buried in a cemetery in Karelia - not sure even neo nazis would travel 2000 miles just to pay homage.

    If they had been ordinary wermacht soldiers, they would of course have the right to be repatriated. Waffen SS do not have that right as enschrined in the Nuremburg ruling, all members were stigmatized even if none had been directly involved in war crimes, or used the often quoted claim that they were simply following orders. That is why the Nazi symbols are banned and possession a criminal offence in Germany.

    It is pointless pontificating as I was merely given my own opinion - unfortunately the cult of SS relics collecting brings both supporters and detractors just as there are two sides to every story and never the twain do meet.

    From an archeological point of view, the fascination with the dig is the possibility of recording in full the injuries sustained,the range of the weapons used, tactics deployed during the fighting and the logistics of moving soldiers in that kind of terrain. The photos are well taken and I hope to see more in future.

    think you could have this wrong~ not sure even neo nazis would travel 2000 miles just to pay homage

    also is it an illegal offence to own anything with a swastika in germany? so a serious german collector with two rooms full of ww2 german militaria is doing something illegal? punishable by imprisonment? i ask as i genuinely dont know?

    cheers ewan

  7. #377

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    More great relics Maxim i bet your emails running regarding the wired lid , awesome piece .
    Ewan how goes it mate , i think its all right to own something with swastica on it in germany ,but where you come into trouble is when you openly display it in any way ,i may be wrong but i think thats how it goes , know doubt one of our members will know the correct ruleing on this one , cheers Raymond

  8. #378

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by ironcross1 View Post
    More great relics Maxim i bet your emails running regarding the wired lid , awesome piece .
    Ewan how goes it mate , i think its all right to own something with swastica on it in germany ,but where you come into trouble is when you openly display it in any way ,i may be wrong but i think thats how it goes , know doubt one of our members will know the correct ruleing on this one , cheers Raymond
    not bad mucker, yourself? yes raymond thats how i thought it aswell

    cheers ewan

  9. #379

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Please alllow me to set things straight here: Public display of Nazi symbols is forbidden in Germany. Privatly collecting Third Reich miliatria is allowed however and is perfectly legal for: educational purposes, protection against illegal and subversive aims, for scientific and art historical research, the education and reporting regarding historical events, or military history and uniform research.

    Cheers, Ade.

  10. #380
    ?

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by shuggymac1 View Post
    I do appreciate that the guys who have been locating, recording, researching and trying to repatriate the bodies of all the soldiers in Karelia have evry right to do so including the methods used and means involved.

    With regards to my comments regarding the disposal, that is my own opinion. It is a fact that the Nuremburg War Trials concluded that the Waffen SS was a criminal organisation as detailed in Airey Neaves book.

    It is also a fact that the 6th SS Mountain division Nord were volunteer soldiers, not conscripts.

    The Norwegian Gov't today would not want these lost soldiers repatriated home as they were regarded as traitors to their own people. In case most people are not aware, Knut Haukelid the famous Norwegian resistance fighter who along with his colleagues
    destroyed the Heavy Water hydro plant at Telemark was actually born in New York.

    If the bodies were repatriated they would according to the gov't become shrines to neonazis. I have no problem with them being buried in a cemetery in Karelia - not sure even neo nazis would travel 2000 miles just to pay homage.

    If they had been ordinary wermacht soldiers, they would of course have the right to be repatriated. Waffen SS do not have that right as enschrined in the Nuremburg ruling, all members were stigmatized even if none had been directly involved in war crimes, or used the often quoted claim that they were simply following orders. That is why the Nazi symbols are banned and possession a criminal offence in Germany.

    It is pointless pontificating as I was merely given my own opinion - unfortunately the cult of SS relics collecting brings both supporters and detractors just as there are two sides to every story and never the twain do meet.

    From an archeological point of view, the fascination with the dig is the possibility of recording in full the injuries sustained,the range of the weapons used, tactics deployed during the fighting and the logistics of moving soldiers in that kind of terrain. The photos are well taken and I hope to see more in future.
    OK let's leave it here , you have expressed your opinion which many here do not and will not agree with however this is a apolitical forum and many hours of work have been put in by the contributors to this thread. If you wish to continue these type of posts there are forums where you can express these type of views and others will disagree with you as much as you want , but please this is not the place for it , lets' get back on track,

    regards

    Paul
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

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