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Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

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  1. #391

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Just wondering Maxim, is this your job? If so you must be the luckiest guy in the world to be doing something like this that you really enjoy too.

  2. #392

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    OK not of field finds but of the SS Nord guys there ! these are Photos that I have in my collection . Maxim did you get the email ?



  3. #393

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Thanx for photos Franz!!!!
    Today I want to show some Finnish badges......
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Pallas.JPG   PSR бошка оленя.JPG  

    PSR мужик с санками.JPG   suomi-finland badge.JPG  

    Suomi-Sweden.JPG   флаги.JPG  

    флаги 2.JPG   пастор.JPG  


  4. #394

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Hi,

    I like many others on this forum have followed this thread with a great deal of interest. I think this is down to what is really an undisturbed old battlefield, especially the bodies of the fallen remaining in situ, and a battle which most of us knew very little about.

    At an early stage of this thread a few members expressed concern and the term "grave robber" was used. I was open minded and enjoyed the pics. However, as this has continued I must admit that I do have concerns about what appears to be taking place.

    The author has posted pics of many rings for example. He's said that they were found having been lost by their owners (or words to that effect).Were they all really that careless? I appreciate that in the violence of a battle items such as rings could be blown away from the body or discarded. In most cases they wouldn't though! Immediately after such a battle wild animals would disperse items to some degree. This applies to some of the other items shown such as watches and the many badges shown!

    I for one now find myself being uneasy with the numerous items being shown, and cannot believe that none of them (due to the number of items involved, and small numbers of troops involved in the original battle) were removed from dead bodies. If so, does that then constitute the term "grave robbing"!

    Administrators of this site have stated that complaints should be directed to themselves. In that case, I also bring this to your attention as an issue.

    I might sound like a kill joy, but stand back and have a good think about this. Is this really what this high quality site should be promoting?

    Andy

  5. #395
    J Nicolas Ramos
    ?

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by DarkEagle View Post
    Woh, What an wonderfull nature there. And what an finds!!!..

    here you have to be thankfull to find an .303....

    Greats finds, and tell me more about the fallen soldiers you found in the last picture.

    greeting DE
    It is not a .303 it is a Mauser

  6. #396
    ?

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by andy123 View Post
    Hi,

    I like many others on this forum have followed this thread with a great deal of interest. I think this is down to what is really an undisturbed old battlefield, especially the bodies of the fallen remaining in situ, and a battle which most of us knew very little about.

    At an early stage of this thread a few members expressed concern and the term "grave robber" was used. I was open minded and enjoyed the pics. However, as this has continued I must admit that I do have concerns about what appears to be taking place.

    The author has posted pics of many rings for example. He's said that they were found having been lost by their owners (or words to that effect).Were they all really that careless? I appreciate that in the violence of a battle items such as rings could be blown away from the body or discarded. In most cases they wouldn't though! Immediately after such a battle wild animals would disperse items to some degree. This applies to some of the other items shown such as watches and the many badges shown!

    I for one now find myself being uneasy with the numerous items being shown, and cannot believe that none of them (due to the number of items involved, and small numbers of troops involved in the original battle) were removed from dead bodies. If so, does that then constitute the term "grave robbing"!

    Administrators of this site have stated that complaints should be directed to themselves. In that case, I also bring this to your attention as an issue.

    I might sound like a kill joy, but stand back and have a good think about this. Is this really what this high quality site should be promoting?

    Andy
    Andy i point you to the Dumping places thread in this same section of the forum.

    I also quote to you my post to the last member who once again rasied these issues,

    " Taurus have you read all this thread or any of the related ones ?

    If you had it is clear that Maxim and Andrey etc are working with various governments , German Volksbund,Russian war graves , Norwegian search organisations etc to recover , identify if possible and repatriate to their native land or the the nearest war cemetery all that they recover.

    This is a very informative and interesting thread and posts and unfounded accustaions of Grave robbing and grave desecration etc etc such as this will no longer be tolerated.

    Please read these threads fully and those who are posting the majority of the postd on this thread can get on with that and not have to be justifying themselves again and again !!! "

    As admins /mods we are more than happy for this thread to continue as the legitimacy of these activities has been proved and if you have a complaint to make coud you do it by pm to the MOD staff rather than members bring up the same point again on the thread.

    regards

    Paul
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  7. #397

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    I think that if a watch or other items can be linked to at certain dead soldier, by initials or engravings, his items will be returned to the relatives if any of them are still alive.

    Maybe I am wrong? Maybe it is too much work.

    Most of the items seen are trinkets, worthless homemade stuff, broken watches 65 years old.

  8. #398

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Paul,

    I will reply to you in the public forum as you have replied to me in the same.

    I stand by what I have said. My reasons are clear, calm and sensible.

    There is nothing to doubt that at some point the people concerned have worked with the organisations that you have mentioned. It doesn't mean that they work with them at all times. Simple observations would be to count the number of rings collected to the number of soldiers that were killed. The same with the badges, awards etc. If the collectors were not involved in removing these items from the dead (constituting grave robbing!) then that was a pretty careless group of soldiers and very lucky searchers.

    You finish by saying " rather than members bringing up the same point again on the thread." Doesn't this then show that there is an issue or is it not convienient to raise it?

    Andy

  9. #399

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Vonforhud,

    If most items are worthless homemade trinkets why have numerous fellow members made requests to buy them? We all know that these items are worth good money. Under different circumstances I may well have been interested in more than one of them.

    Andy

  10. #400

    Default re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by andy123 View Post
    Paul,

    I will reply to you in the public forum as you have replied to me in the same.

    I stand by what I have said. My reasons are clear, calm and sensible.

    There is nothing to doubt that at some point the people concerned have worked with the organisations that you have mentioned. It doesn't mean that they work with them at all times. Simple observations would be to count the number of rings collected to the number of soldiers that were killed. The same with the badges, awards etc. If the collectors were not involved in removing these items from the dead (constituting grave robbing!) then that was a pretty careless group of soldiers and very lucky searchers.
    So far, whilst searching an ENGLISH airbase where there are obviously no battlefield remains, I have found a German wound badge, numerous buttons, 2 RAF badges, 3 USAAF badges, 70 German coins, 60+ English coins, bits of weapon, bits of vehicles, bits of aircraft, aircraft instruments, numerous personal items from jam jar lids and toothpaste tubes to razors and razor tins. I could go on but I won't, apart from to say I have found THREE rings myself. So I can say without ANY DOUBT AT ALL, Yes.....soldiers were careless and yes, searchers like me find them 65-70 years later if you do a little bit of research and learn WHERE to LOOK.

    Quote by andy123 View Post
    You finish by saying " rather than members bringing up the same point again on the thread." Doesn't this then show that there is an issue or is it not convienient to raise it?

    Andy
    You are raising an issue already discussed. From my perspective you appear to be doing it for personal gratification rather than any real concern over the work done by these guys.

    Instead of getting on your little soap box, why not take the time to save your replies somewhere, then come back and re-read them an hour later. I am sure you will find this useful.

    Quote by andy123 View Post
    Vonforhud,

    If most items are worthless homemade trinkets why have numerous fellow members made requests to buy them? We all know that these items are worth good money. Under different circumstances I may well have been interested in more than one of them.

    Andy
    Erm.....because, by definition, everyone on this forum is interested and probably collects WW2 items. This doesn't make the items anything other than what they are. Relics. I for one have found 2 German dog tags in England but cannot return them to the soldiers relatives as the German government won't give out, quite rightly, this sort of information.

    You are making an idiot of yourself and I respectfully request you stop filling this thread up with self opinionated nonsense.

    Now. Can we get back on topic please.

    Steve T

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