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Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

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  1. #811

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    This ring type is one that I've never seen before, and I've been looking at Todtenkopf rings since the 1960's. It's especially unusual, in the fact that it has silver markings on the Outside of the band, rather than the Inside. You will Not find Any of the many experts in this field on line or otherwise who will ever admit to the fact that any of these rings ever Had outer band markings, but there you go- here's one right out of the ground. Go figure. If it makes a difference (which it doesn't, in My opinion, at least) It could Possibly be a Non-German made piece, since it came from the SS Nord Division with many many Norwegians, Finns, etc in it. Either way, it's a definitely owned and worn SS piece in decent heavy silver in a very seldom seen pattern. I have no clue as to why it is split in the back, but I suspect that it is from the purchaser not wishing to take or having the time to have it properly Sized and so took it with the band open in the back. I've seen others like this as well of all kinds- not just the Todtenkopf types. I don't believe that Any of the skull rings were ever Official Sanctioned military rings and all branches of service did, indeed, wear them (I've even seen an early photo of a White Russian wearing a Beautiful large skull ring) but This ring, in This case, is Definitely from an SS man, and most probably an officer as well. Straight out of the ground from the site of a famous battle ground. You can't get any better than that! Excellent ring! William
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  2. #812

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    +1
    Bravo William!

  3. #813

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by Eismeerfront View Post
    Y seen no cleaning ring#802....
    Or you don't want to see?
    Yes, I want to see what the ring looked like -right out of the ground.

    Unlike the rings in post #804, which are clearly silver plated or washed (and rusty)... the ring in #802 did not look like that when it was found.

    Thank you in advance.

  4. #814

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by Mil Spec View Post
    Yes, I want to see what the ring looked like -right out of the ground.

    Unlike the rings in post #804, which are clearly silver plated or washed (and rusty)... the ring in #802 did not look like that when it was found.

    Thank you in advance.
    In deed the condition of the ring in post #802 looks very different and like new. Very weird. Are they made from different materials?
    Looking for the photo albums of Leutnant Emil Freitag, 3. / G.R. 377

  5. #815

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by donkihotis7 View Post
    In deed the condition of the ring in post #802 looks very different and like new. Very weird. Are they made from different materials?
    Yes, according to the '800' stamp -it is 80% pure silver. That is essentially coin quality.

    As noted by Wagriff, it is curious the '800' proof mark is stamped on the outside of the band. Even more curious, it is stamped in incuse relief.

    Seeing what it looked like right out of the ground will tell if it is indeed genuine......... or not.

  6. #816

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by donkihotis7 View Post
    In deed the condition of the ring in post #802 looks very different and like new. Very weird. Are they made from different materials?

    Certainly. The first ring - silver also is found in clay. Both other of bronze with a covering chrome, are found in the bunker about a bog, in this place a peat ground. This sign too has suffered, is similar to alpack rings.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture DSC07789.JPG  

  7. #817

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Not to cause strife, but I think that some of the trouble is that the ring seems to have been only Partially cleaned. If you look, you can discern cleaning marks and striations. Whether it was cleaned off in the field or back in town, I have no clue,of course. I would be curious to see it in full polish. If you enlarge the photo's and look closely, you can see traces of dark tarnish on the inside of the band-especially around the makers mark stamp and in the last photo where the head is facing left, you can see several dark spots that have not been removed-particularly the dark black areas around the corner of the left jaw and the cluster of 3 areas on the band. And, as has been said, the Type of ground it was recovered from makes a significant factor as well. There appears to be traces of a tan/brownish clay soil around the skull design and inside as well. The lighting does not help much either, it almost whites out the table of the ring in the last photo and does not flatter the full front shot either.
    As for the stamped markings, I can only repeat that I do not believe that this is a German made ring- it could very well be Norwegian or any number of countries. Whether these countries Did or did not mark their pieces on the outside and inside as this one has been, I have no clue, as this is outside My experience field, of course. I'll leave that for the more knowledgeable experts to answer. I guess the bottom line here is what do you believe? Personally, I Like it and consider it a period piece. So....let's hear what you guys think out there! William
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  8. #818

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    I don't like it. If it was a period piece (#802), it would look much different than that -right out of the ground.

    The other 2 rings as well (#804)... bronze has a high copper content and has a specific look to it when it is tarnished.

    Even rusty items look different when comparing 1 year old versus 65 years old...

    There are so many clues being missed here on these couple of items (that I will not specifically point out to aid in future, ehem, embellishment), that I have to question the whole lot.

    Just my .02

  9. #819

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Well I am flabbergasted. Here's a guy, digging important relics out of the ground and showing them to us, and a couple of us decide to challenge their authenticity !

    Do you believe that Eismeerfront is deliberately posting replica relics to boost his ego or sales of the relics ? Why on earth would he, especially when he isn't using the forum to promote sales in any way ? Indeed, I am not sure he even sells his items.

    I have been digging relics myself for many years and have to say that the condition is entirely dependent on the ground in which they are found. For instance, 303 cartridges I dig at a beach/dune location are in superb condition, looking like they were only dropped yesterday. They have no pitting, a slight tarnish and are as solid as the day they were made. 303s dug on an airbase in mud/clay are badly pitted with serious corrosion and, invariably, the neck of the cartridge is brittle and tends to fall apart when lightly cleaned.

    This is all this is. A difference in where the items were found and in what kind of soil. It has nothing to do with Eismeerfront pretending to have found something he hasn't. Why on earth would he ? What would be the point ? And why on earth would he show pictures of the remains of soldiers being recovered in the same post. Nobody questions these as staged or fake. What about all the other relics that aren't skull rings ? He has dug thousands of items yet the ones that come under scrutiny are the ones with the highest re-sale value. Nobody has ever questioned the authenticity of any of the toiletry tubes/tins or personal items he has dug.

    Many personal items are just that......personal. They may have been made specially for a person or they may have made them themselves. I have found many items that you won't find in any books, (e.g. trench art lighters made from 30cal cartridges or even 303s.........a small lead aircraft obviously made by bored aircrew.......a British ha'penny bent in half and attached to a chain....), but nobody says 'OMG that is really suspicious and I don't believe you dug it'.

    So Eismeerfront finds something that is in remarkable condition. That is no reason to question its authenticity.

    The cleaning methods employed also have a big impact on how a relic looks. I have spent hours grinding, polishing and rubbing six 50cal cartridges to get them 'back' to shiny brass to make a display. I did this for two reasons. Firstly to make a nice display of, what looks like, brand new 50cals yet all being dated 1942 and 1943. Secondly to prove to myself that it could be done. Even dipping a brass item in something as simple as Coke will bring it back from being badly tarnished. The same applies to items such as those being discussed.

    Just my two penneth worth.......

    Steve T

  10. #820

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Actually, with all of the SS dog tags, cap skulls and eagles, helmets, grenades, canteens, messkits and what all...the occasional Rings are FAR from the most highest resale value things dug. William
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

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