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Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

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  1. #981
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    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    The main problem is poverty/low standard of living in the Russian Fedarations, Belarus etc. . 'Battelfield archeology' is a way to earn money. And as long as collectors all over the world are prepared to pay highest prices for genuine battelfield relics this practice with all its negative by effects will continue.

    I have witnessed several battle field digs in the former territories of the Soviet Union as part of the research for a televison programme. some of these groups indeed work together with organisations like the 'Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge' or their Russian counterparts. Many don't. They just want ( I am sorry to say) earn a quick buck (understandable in it self). but some groups/iidviduals during the process of doing that have no respect for remains of the dead. I have seen human remains thrown back into the hole or just left piled up in the woods after the digging was over. And the former Russian territories are just too vast for the authorities to monitor this. Besides some of these digs take place in the middle of bl..dy nowhere.

    What also frightend me is the way that diggers handle the often vast amounts of ammunition/explosives that they find. I once witnessed a dig somewhere in Belarus. Within half an hour 35 German S- mines were found. All rusted and very dangerous. I wouldn't dream of touching stuff like that. I have even witnessed diggers pose for a pic with a primed panzefaust that didn't look to good. some of these guys know what they do, others dont. And i can tell you that accidents do happen.

  2. #982
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    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by rayban View Post
    The main problem is poverty/low standard of living in the Russian Fedarations, Belarus etc. . 'Battelfield archeology' is a way to earn money. And as long as collectors all over the world are prepared to pay highest prices for genuine battelfield relics this practice with all its negative by effects will continue.

    I have witnessed several battle field digs in the former territories of the Soviet Union as part of the research for a televison programme. some of these groups indeed work together with organisations like the 'Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge' or their Russian counterparts. Many don't. They just want ( I am sorry to say) earn a quick buck (understandable in it self). but some groups/iidviduals during the process of doing that have no respect for remains of the dead. I have seen human remains thrown back into the hole or just left piled up in the woods after the digging was over. And the former Russian territories are just too vast for the authorities to monitor this. Besides some of these digs take place in the middle of bl..dy nowhere.

    What also frightend me is the way that diggers handle the often vast amounts of ammunition/explosives that they find. I once witnessed a dig somewhere in Belarus. Within half an hour 35 German S- mines were found. All rusted and very dangerous. I wouldn't dream of touching stuff like that. I have even witnessed diggers pose for a pic with a primed panzefaust that didn't look to good. some of these guys know what they do, others dont. And i can tell you that accidents do happen.

    Hi,

    What you say sounds rather damning.

    I live in Australia (even major stories of grave robbing -unless it involves the ANZACS make no news here). I don't dispute what you say nor can I verify the truth of who posts here.
    I know when I visited Gallipoli (Turkey- Lone Pine) the local museum advertised a skeleton of an ANZAC in their display- I made my objections clear to the museum (I doubt what they say is true- Australia does not displace, misrepresent nor forget our dead- my family members included). If in doubt click => Commonwealth War Graves Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia we don't mess about.
    According to the forum the people undertaking this work are true to their word.
    I have no doubt you're true to your word also- to deny the possibility of grave robbing and irresponsible behaviour in some cases is folly.

    Cheers,

    jamie.

  3. #983
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    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Guys!!! Let's not ruin Sebastiens thread once again!!! Open a thread about the issues you have with digging and i will be happy to join in.

    Regards

    Lars

  4. #984
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    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by Datrus View Post
    Guys!!! Let's not ruin Sebastiens thread once again!!! Open a thread about the issues you have with digging and i will be happy to join in.

    Regards

    Lars
    Sorry.
    It wasn't my intention in regards to my reply.
    Moderators feel free to delete or leave standing.
    My reply is not objectionable and in terms of war graves- it's educational (link to the war graves commission).
    Cheers,
    Jamie.

  5. #985

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Quote by rayban View Post
    The main problem is poverty/low standard of living in the Russian Fedarations, Belarus etc. . 'Battelfield archeology' is a way to earn money. And as long as collectors all over the world are prepared to pay highest prices for genuine battelfield relics this practice with all its negative by effects will continue.

    I have witnessed several battle field digs in the former territories of the Soviet Union as part of the research for a televison programme. some of these groups indeed work together with organisations like the 'Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge' or their Russian counterparts. Many don't. They just want ( I am sorry to say) earn a quick buck (understandable in it self). but some groups/iidviduals during the process of doing that have no respect for remains of the dead. I have seen human remains thrown back into the hole or just left piled up in the woods after the digging was over. And the former Russian territories are just too vast for the authorities to monitor this. Besides some of these digs take place in the middle of bl..dy nowhere.

    What also frightend me is the way that diggers handle the often vast amounts of ammunition/explosives that they find. I once witnessed a dig somewhere in Belarus. Within half an hour 35 German S- mines were found. All rusted and very dangerous. I wouldn't dream of touching stuff like that. I have even witnessed diggers pose for a pic with a primed panzefaust that didn't look to good. some of these guys know what they do, others dont. And i can tell you that accidents do happen.
    Trust us here,rayban. The digger in this particular thread is very well experienced and knowledgeable in the handling of ordnance and explosive devices. Also, as regards to human remains, if you'll read through the thread(I know, it's rather long) you'll see that they are very dedicated and handle remains with dignity and see that they are re-interred honorably and properly. This is not to say, of course, that Every digger is so well organized and honorable, of course. As you say, there are many who are not so "careful", to say the least. But in the case of This one-there is absolutely no problem or concerns.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  6. #986

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Somewhere on Youtube is a video of diggers somewhere in Russia and they are POUNDING of the fuzes of live german motor rounds to try and get the fuzes off.
    It is not surprizing tha so many Russian diggers are blown to bits each year... we just do see the viseos as the diggers and their cameramen are probably all taken out when the things go off.

  7. #987
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    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Rayban your coments are completely valid but as for the wrongs and rights of battlefield digging this has been discussed many times before on this forum, this thread is about digging with the full backing of the authorirties so lets leave the others discussions behind or post them elsewhere

    cheers

    paul
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  8. #988

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Hello everyone,
    As the digging season still is in its down and we dont have so much news from Maxim and Andrey I am posting some pictures from my two trips with them at the battlegrounds of Russian North Karelia. In early June 2008 I visited the Hasselmann hill close to Kaprolat in the Kiestinki area where the volunteer SS-Schijäger Batallion "Norge" was attacked by the Red army in June 1944.
    The area has been explored by diggers many times and I doubt there is so much more to be found here. But it is awesome to walk around and the forest is pretty much untouched. There has been some logging, that is all.
    The view of the lake you see is the Kapanez lake south of Hasselmann.
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  9. #989

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    THANX! That lake is beautiful!

  10. #990

    Default Re: Battlefields in North Karelia( SS-Nord Division)

    Why is there a flock of pigeons on your knee? Oh wait...those are Russian Mosquitoes....nevermind...lol
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

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