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Digging in Norway & Kurland

Article about: Hi everybody! I have been a lurker in these forums for a few years and found it was time to present myself and open a thread where I will post some pics from expeditions and finds. Some of t

  1. #61
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    Quote by Frundsberg View Post
    Actually it is very easy to make a "dum-dum" bullet - just cut off the top part of the bullet. It was used in WWI, WWII and I'm sure it is used also today. When such bullet hits the body it does not run through of it but causes very bad wounds. But do not try this at home - "dum-dum" bullets are prohibited.
    I respect your input here on the forum immensely, Frundsberg and its just a matter of mere terminology
    You are after all partly right; its relatively easy to make an expanding or semi-expanding projectile out of a Full Metal Jacket rifle projectile. If a proejctile has a lead core, you can expose this and in theory make an expanding projectile.

    International conventions outlaw the use of expanding projectiles for war and stipulate Full Metal Jacket or non-expanding projectiles.

    Whilst you cant use them for war, they are not prohibited as expanding projectiles are used for deer hunting purposes for example. In fact, this is stipulated by hunting laws in many Western countries, as they are very efficient and you cant use non-expanding projectiles on deer-sized or larger animals.

    How ever, I clearly did not express myself clearly; the term 'Dum-dum' is merely not the correct term, as this was an Arsenal in the 1850s in India, that was the gist of my comment and sorry, that I didnt convey this clearly.

    On the main themes we agree. The terminology is after all just a matter of (me) splitting hairs.

    The term is wrong albeit in widespread use, as is the term 'shrapnel' for fragments. Both are wrong and both bug me, but thats just me

  2. #62
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    A few examples.
    From the bottom;
    -7.62 NATO FMJ Full Metal Jacket non-expanding.
    -.308 Norma Alaskan hunting cartridge. Expanding partly exposed core.
    -.458 LOTT hunting cartridge (for that pesky Tyrannosaures Rex or really peed of Cyncerus Caffer). Expanding partly exposed core.
    -.45-70 hunting cartridge. Expanding partly exposed core.
    -.45-70 'old style' all cast projectile with a degree of mushrooming effect.

    (NB .7.62 and the .308 switched in the second pic for some reason).

    Sorry to OP for going OT and for my bout of OCD - now back to the scheduled program!
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture 1.JPG   3.JPG  


  3. #63
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    Hehe
    Thanks guys Inf.Div121- The shop only had those crap shovels,but I have ordered a real digger one,Fiskars ofcourse

    I went to a place I earlier did a great find at,it was very overgrown and difficult to move and use the metaldetector in,but I turned it on and fought my way towards the spot. There was very little hits and after an hour search I returned to the car..

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    I drove to a garbage pit I have been at before hoping to find something good there,but some hours digging and searching the area all I had found was rust and broken bottles. I found a small porcelain jar like the one I found a few days ago,without the lid,but I think I might have found the lid last time I dug here,,going to have a look for it now

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    So not all days is full of Luck for a digger,but got to move around and be in the nature Tomorrow is a New day and I think I will go to a place I never been but heard rumours about and have a few other new places to go in the weekend
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Military-archeology-Legenda-Latvia/224779244335847

    http://www.hobbyhistorica.com/

  4. #64

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    Thanks, Scout! English is not my first language, of course you can use such ammo for hunting. But not in the war. Actually there are many quite simple ways to make your ammo much more effective but it is not the theme of this topic.

    Seems that in nordic countries all relics preserve much better. Just look at the Northen Finland finds for example. I do not know where you are digging but these 2 ammo crates seem to be not of the German origin. Maybe just hided away ammo during German occupation in 1940? Did Norway used 6,5mm Manlicher ammo before 1940?

  5. #65
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    Quote by Frundsberg View Post
    Thanks, Scout! English is not my first language, of course you can use such ammo for hunting. But not in the war. Actually there are many quite simple ways to make your ammo much more effective but it is not the theme of this topic.
    Thanks for taking it in your stride
    (but then I expected no less, as you IMO is a balanced forum asset).

    Your English is just fine - my compliments

    As mentioned, many many people use the 'Dum-Dum' designation for expanding projectiles, so no problem per se. Just hair splitting.

    Quote by Frundsberg View Post
    .................. It seems to be just a ordinary 6.5mm Manlicher ammo.
    Quote by Frundsberg View Post
    Seems that in nordic countries all relics preserve much better. Just look at the Northen Finland finds for example. I do not know where you are digging but these 2 ammo crates seem to be not of the German origin. Maybe just hided away ammo during German occupation in 1940? Did Norway used 6,5mm Manlicher ammo before 1940?
    No, Norway did not use the 6.5x52mm (Mannlicher) Carcano round BUT they did use the 6.5x55mm.

    (A tidbit of info about the well proven, flat shooting 6.5 family: The 6.5×55m is a rimless bottlenecked rifle cartridge. Other less common names are 6.5×55mm Swedish Mauser, 6.5×55mm Mauser and 6.5×55mm Krag. It was developed in 1891 for use in the new service rifles then under consideration by the United Kingdoms of Sweden and Norway. The two nations had independent armies and consequently the normal procedure at the time was for their respective governments to use the same ammunition and then purchase small arms of their choice. Norway adopted the Krag-Jørgensen rifle, while Sweden adopted a Mauser rifle design.

    The 6.5×55mm cartridge has a smaller bullet diameter and lower recoil than other full-power service rifle cartridges like the .30-06 Springfield and 7.92×57mm Mauser, but thanks in part to its relatively roomy case with an uncommon 12.2 mm (0.480 in) diameter bolt face which was designed for loading long, heavy 6.5 mm bullets has proven more successful than other first-generation smokeless-powder military cartridges of similar caliber such as the 6×60mm US Navy, 6.5×54mm Mannlicher-Schönauer, 6.5×53mm Dutch Mannlicher, 6.5×52mm Carcano and 6.5×50mm Arisaka.
    )

    The 6.5×55mm cartridge was used by Norway in the Krag-Jørgensen bolt action rifle and in the Madsen machine gun, as well as in several prototype self-loading rifles.

    A very good call though, Frundsberg, as the 6.5x52 looks A LOT like the 6.5X55 which was used by Norway. Same 6.5 family hence the resemblance.
    Further more, in desperate times during two World wars, all kinds of ammo in old stocks was used in last ditch defence, so who knows, what kind of 'oddball' ammo (no pun intended) was found hidden away and used any which way - current service ammo or not. We see all kinds of desperate measures used in for example the defence of Berlin in 1945 (loads of WWI rifles, handguns and even tanks of the non-current service issue was pressed into service in these dire straits).

    I will not in any way deny that the rounds might be the 6.5x52, as they look a lot alike, but due to where the digging might have taken place, Im more inclined to believe the rounds to be the venerable 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser round as used by Norway in their service rifles.

    We will know more, if the OP shows us the well preserved ammo packages and tells us more of where it was found.

    Here a pic of the 6.5x55. Compare with the pics, that the OP posted of the ammo on a previous page.

    Pic from here with more 6.5x55mm info
    1896 Swedish Mauser
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture 6.5 Swedish Mauser.jpg  

  6. #66
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    "I will not in any way deny that the rounds might be the 6.5x52, as they look a lot alike, but due to where the digging might have taken place, Im more inclined to believe the rounds to be the venerable 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser round as used by Norway in their service rifles."
    - The Box and ammo packs had Norwegian markings so my Guess would be they was produced in Norway for the Krag rifle..

    Very wet and rainy today,soo,,should I get some rest today,or off to the forest?Cant decide,I want both
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Military-archeology-Legenda-Latvia/224779244335847

    http://www.hobbyhistorica.com/

  7. #67
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    Do you have a rain cover for the F5. I ask because i don't know if there is made one for it. It does not like rain

    Regards, Lars

  8. #68
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    Do not have a raincover,,so I have used see-through plastic bags..but yes,,have noticed it dont like wet weather too much..
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Military-archeology-Legenda-Latvia/224779244335847

    http://www.hobbyhistorica.com/

  9. #69
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    LOL same method as i use then.

    Regards, Lars

  10. #70
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    It was a very wet day today,it often poured Down,but I had to go searching again at the military base. I covered alot of the area with not a single sound from the metal detector,,so far it looks like all the finds is concentrated within 500x500 meter of the Whole camp,which is big..

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    I dug some signals but it was nothing but rusted boxes and Nails,but in one of these small pits I found these two,,a Norwegian army coffee cup,and a lid to some grenade case. So not the best day of finds ,but got to cover alot of the area,so not a total Waste

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    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Military-archeology-Legenda-Latvia/224779244335847

    http://www.hobbyhistorica.com/

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