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Laws and Battlefield Archaeology !!

Article about: Guys the moderating team as a result of the horrendous controvesy surrounding recent events have been reviewing the Battlefield Archaeology section with regard to how we can be as robust as

  1. #1
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    Default Laws and Battlefield Archaeology !!

    Members,

    As a result of a number of recently posted topics which have been deleted by forum staff i have to point out that War relics forum in no way condones , supports or will tolerate the digging on or removal of articles Military or otherwise from sites which are in contravention of the Military or Civil laws of any given country.

    Much advice is already available on the forum regarding the laws re metal detecting / Battlefield Archaeology etc in many counties and if further advice is needed i'm sure it can be provided by members or by the relevant research.

    For example :

    Ministry of Defence | MicroSite | Defence Estates | What We Do | Byelaws

    Remember guys ignorance is no defence in law so if your not sure check it out before you get out on the Battlefields etc

    Regards

    Paul
    Last edited by Paul D; 06-10-2010 at 10:31 PM.
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  2. #2

    Default Re: Laws and Battlefield Archaeology !!

    I'm glad to see that a sticky thread has been made to deal with this issue, removal of anything from MOD property such as ranges and training areas is classed as theft even if the particular item may be considered as rubbish awaiting disposal. It is a civilian and military offence to remove used or unused pyrotechnics, ammunition and any other munition or peice of equipment. Even if its nothing more than a piece of metal or plastic it should be left where it is. Its also highly dangerous because many areas have not been cleared, the signs are there for a reason! None of the things lying around are worth being fined, charged or losing an arm for. Stick to the laws and stick to designated paths and roads

    Thanks

    Danny
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture two used smoke grenades.jpg  

  3. #3

    Default Re: Laws and Battlefield Archaeology !!

    The link Paul has included will take you to the MOD site that has many, BUT BY NO MEANS ALL, the relevant bye laws for all ranges on UK soil, past and present.

    Please remember that these laws, if still in place, will be and have been enforced, regardless of the last time a shot was fired on a specific site. The punishments in many of the bye laws seem rather light, with 5 maximum fines being quoted in many of them. Be aware that the punishment moves with the times and the fines are FAR greater and prison terms not totally out of the question. Certainly a criminal record is not worth a relic.

    For members in Europe, USA, Canada and Australia, if any of you have links to relevant sites pertaining to the laws regarding battlefields and/or gunnery ranges, please post them in this thread.

    Remember, ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law. If you cannot determine legality, assume it IS ILLEGAL.

    Many thanks

    Steve T

  4. #4

    Default Re: Laws and Battlefield Archaeology !!

    Quote by Whitehunter View Post
    What are those green tins?
    Those are a couple of used smoke grenades, these are typical things that can be found lying around on training area's. Even though they are considered as MOD rubbish, by no means should you pick them up and shove them in your pocket.

    Thanks

    Danny

    EDIT: Beat me to it again Steve, with pretty much my exact words

  5. #5

    Default Re: Laws and Battlefield Archaeology !!

    I need some help with laws @ Poland, maybe better if I find someone from west Poland to digg together? Swiedzbozin aerea.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Laws and Battlefield Archaeology !!

    Maybe post in the Polish section one of the guys who post regulary there might be able to help you,

    cheers

    Paul
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Laws and Battlefield Archaeology !!

    As a result of a number of recently posted topics which have been deleted by forum staff i have to point out that War relics forum in no way condones , supports or will tolerate the digging on or removal of articles Military or otherwise from sites which are in contravention of the Military or Civil laws of any given country.
    In all honesty - isn't this pretty much impossible? E.g. - "Battlefield Archaeology" as presented here is almost always illegal in this sense.

    Take the "Stalingrad: digging near Gorodisсhe & Gumrak" thread as an example. 81 pages of "illegal activity" so far, OTOH it would be a loss if this thread would be deleted. I sometimes have a few doubts as to what will be acceptable and what is not.

    Other thoughts of mine: it seems to be "acceptable" digging up German and Russian battlefields from WW2, but I have read comments that doing the same in a Union/Confederate-battlefield would be totally unacceptable since those are basically sacred cemetaries. The logic in that is a bit strange, taking into account that civil war soldiers/remains don't have any close relatives still alive, whereas the same is not necessarily true for WW2 soldiers in many cases. The same seems to be true when people dig up British and American artefacts and battlefield remains. Comments there sometimes show some anger with the diggers whereas digging up Russian/German/Romanian remains in Stalingrad are being applauded. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

    Just some food for thoughts.

    Regards,

    Jerry

  8. #8

    Default Re: Laws and Battlefield Archaeology !!

    Quote by Jerry View Post
    In all honesty - isn't this pretty much impossible? E.g. - "Battlefield Archaeology" as presented here is almost always illegal in this sense.
    No. You are incorrect and have either misunderstood the application of the laws and what they prohibit, or deliberately misinterpreted them to be justify having a bit of an 'orange box' moment.

    Quote by Jerry View Post
    Take the "Stalingrad: digging near Gorodisсhe & Gumrak" thread as an example. 81 pages of "illegal activity" so far, OTOH it would be a loss if this thread would be deleted. I sometimes have a few doubts as to what will be acceptable and what is not.
    Mods and Admin are always on the case in this forum. Anything we are not 100% happy with is deleted. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

    Quote by Jerry View Post
    The same seems to be true when people dig up British and American artefacts and battlefield remains. Comments there sometimes show some anger with the diggers whereas digging up Russian/German/Romanian remains in Stalingrad are being applauded. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?
    I don't know what threads you've been reading as the reaction to human remains being found is always the same regardless of nationality. Always has been, always will be. We are all glad to see they get a long overdue decent burial.

    Quote by Jerry View Post
    Just some food for thoughts.
    Actually, I don't think there are any.

    Steve T

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Laws and Battlefield Archaeology !!

    This threads purpose is as it states , that the forum does not in any way condone illegal activity and advises all members that they should be conversant with the laws of their country or the area they are in. As Steve has pointed out if we feel that people are flaunting the law and are carrying out illegal activity they are challenged and if necessary banned from here , done so that insofar as possible all Battefield Archaeology posted here is legal.

    With regard to the specific thread you mention Sebastien is happy that he is following the laws in his particular area of the World !!

    These type of threads attract the same questions again and again from new members as to the subject of legality / human remains etc and they have been addressed many times before.

    cheers

    Paul
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Laws and Battlefield Archaeology !!

    Nothing is 100 % when dealing with posters from across the world over the internet but we do the best that we can and as i say this thread sets out for everyone the policy of this forum !!

    Hopefully this gives some guidance to those who are not sure about the laws and provides them with advice to look into things further before they start digging up someones land.

    As for most of the threads , Battlefields in Karelia included discussion has taken place with the persons involved not always on forum , in that particular thread the contributors are digging with all required paperwork to make their work legal with the authorities , wargraves etc !!
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

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