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Let's settle this !

Article about: Ok guys Now let's stop messing around because this is driving me NUTS ! Let's have views on what on earth these cartridges have been deliberately cut through for. They were all found on a nu

  1. #21

    Default Re: Let's settle this !

    Oh ... and the other reason why I suspect that these cut-down rounds are the result of trench-art making activities is because I've found dozens of cut-down bits & pieces on old airfield domestic sites ... which is not where you would expect personnel to be engaged in maintenance tasks ...

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Let's settle this !

    Because I am a bit of a tinkerer and have done something along these lines while in uniform ( I kept a hacksaw and a tube cutter in my APC's OVM bag ) , I'd say you have two possibilities here. One is the basic "tube" portion of the case was used to sleeve something for shim or bearing surface type application - typical resourceful GI thinking , or two some fella used the "tube" portion that was cut from the case to make tent poles - pinned on one end and let the stick fit in the other end.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Let's settle this !

    gew98

    Wow ! What a good use ..... and not mentioned previously.

    Thanks

    relichunter

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Let's settle this !

    Id have to opt for the less extravagant idea of local ammunition disposal. Normally rounds are taken away for disposal in furnaces, but if youve only got a handful of rounds, whats the point in filling out the paperwork? By cutting the cartridges through youd render them useless to anyone.

    These could also have been duds, which would yield the indented primers. Also when a round is loaded into the chamber it does infact press an indent into the primer, and this can sometimes be confused with rounds that have been fired. They may just have been the last few rounds of a link, and rather than being disposed or relinked, they were rendered inoperable and discarded. As much as I would like to believe that they were cutup for "art", Id have to lean towards the more mundane and military purpose.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Let's settle this !

    Quote by Digger View Post
    Id have to opt for the less extravagant idea of local ammunition disposal. Normally rounds are taken away for disposal in furnaces, but if youve only got a handful of rounds, whats the point in filling out the paperwork? By cutting the cartridges through youd render them useless to anyone.

    These could also have been duds, which would yield the indented primers. Also when a round is loaded into the chamber it does infact press an indent into the primer, and this can sometimes be confused with rounds that have been fired. They may just have been the last few rounds of a link, and rather than being disposed or relinked, they were rendered inoperable and discarded. As much as I would like to believe that they were cutup for "art", Id have to lean towards the more mundane and military purpose.


    Digger ; The M2 or M3 cal.50 MG does not have free floating firing pin and will not in any way ding/dent a primer. The weapon fires from an open bolt and when the bolt and carrier lock home and come to a stop the sear gets tripped by the "timing lever". I do not believ the 20mm "oerks" had a floating pin arrangement either - floating pins can be quite dangerous on such caliber weapons. The M1 carbine and Garand both have floating pins , but the only time you will ever hear about an out of battery discharge from a floating firing pin on those rifles are when they have been accurized and tricked out to the point where the free floating pin has caused such disasters.
    As for ammo disposal - hell my experiance 99% of the time if we had live ammo left - for whatever reason we simply tossed it in a swamp,river or just buried it toot sweet. Nobody higher up wanted to due the paperwork on uncrated ammo ( broken seals meant a round for round count ).
    I can't see someone ordering that "tedioous" breakdown method of live rounds when it would have been quicker to bury the problem. All the more so during a war.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Let's settle this !

    Perhaps making some "early" I.E.D.'s,looks like the cuts were made with a plumber's pipe cutter..thought I'd throw my 2cents into the mix.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Let's settle this !

    Quote by gew98 View Post
    Digger ; The M2 or M3 cal.50 MG does not have free floating firing pin and will not in any way ding/dent a primer. The weapon fires from an open bolt and when the bolt and carrier lock home and come to a stop the sear gets tripped by the "timing lever". I do not believ the 20mm "oerks" had a floating pin arrangement either - floating pins can be quite dangerous on such caliber weapons. The M1 carbine and Garand both have floating pins , but the only time you will ever hear about an out of battery discharge from a floating firing pin on those rifles are when they have been accurized and tricked out to the point where the free floating pin has caused such disasters.
    As for ammo disposal - hell my experiance 99% of the time if we had live ammo left - for whatever reason we simply tossed it in a swamp,river or just buried it toot sweet. Nobody higher up wanted to due the paperwork on uncrated ammo ( broken seals meant a round for round count ).
    I can't see someone ordering that "tedioous" breakdown method of live rounds when it would have been quicker to bury the problem. All the more so during a war.

    Sorry, Im just using my experience with various weapon systems. In particular I happened to notice that when I make safe with the SA80A2, the live rounds I eject have small indents in the primer. Which due to my lack of experience the first time I noticed this, it made me panick and think I had a dud round in the chamber. As it happens, I was told that most weapons leave at least a small indent into chambered rounds - especially when firring on automatic. And subsequently having fired most weapons from the MP5 and G36, to the MG42 and 50cal, I have noticed it. Although thats not to say it happens on every round I chamber. But I wont discount other theories.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Let's settle this !

    Quote by Digger View Post
    Sorry, Im just using my experience with various weapon systems. In particular I happened to notice that when I make safe with the SA80A2, the live rounds I eject have small indents in the primer. Which due to my lack of experience the first time I noticed this, it made me panick and think I had a dud round in the chamber. As it happens, I was told that most weapons leave at least a small indent into chambered rounds - especially when firring on automatic. And subsequently having fired most weapons from the MP5 and G36, to the MG42 and 50cal, I have noticed it. Although thats not to say it happens on every round I chamber. But I wont discount other theories.

    Digger ; When the M16 was first adopted they had some out of battery discharges occur due to the armalites floating firing pin. The remedy chosen for this was to toughen the sensitivity of the primers in the ammo.
    Only time I have ever encountered firing pin indents on 7,62x51 and .50 caliber MG's in military service was from a weak strike, bad spring or bad firing pin - all which caused a failure to fire but otherwise did not mark/damage the round.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Let's settle this !

    Not to worry - conflicting experiences. Im just putting it up as a possibility. Although in reference to some of your postings, Ive never really known guys over here to just dump live rounds. Although Ive heard experiences of guys just after the war, finding live rounds and just putting them in a vice...so I guess at the moment, there is no real explination as to why these rounds have been found as they are. We're just left with the hermanutics.

    Merry christmas mate.
    Tom.

  10. #30
    mag
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    Default Re: Let's settle this !

    Hello Folks
    First post here and a great site

    This post has intrigued me so have a look at the following couple of links regarding headspace problems....and case seperations and ruptures

    I'm inclined to believe thats what caused the separated cases....but.....who knows?

    Case separation picture - Benchrest Central Forums

    TM9-2210 - Cal..30 MG Malfunctions

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