Meuse Argonne Springfield found in river

**lithgow** · 05-18-2010, 05:01 PM

Hello-the river rifle is definitely a US M1917 Enfield-the curved sight protectors are slightly shorter than the P14 due to the longer .30-06 shell case needing more space to load in the receiver. Also it was found in the Meuse/Argonne region, site of a major battle between the US and Germany at the end of WW1.

**navyman** · 05-18-2010, 05:24 PM

by m3bobby

Yep, that the one, I thought yours may also be a Model 1914 or Rifle No.3 as its also known. I'm no P17 expert (Although I do have a 1918 Eddystone version) but I dont think the 1917 was fitted with the volley sights. Is yours definatly a 1917? Maybe the wood works been replaced in British service?

Cheers, Chris.

Hello Chris,
I've been perplexed ever since I bought this rifle, not being able to work out whether it is a P14,(No 3), or a P17.
An interesting thing is that when I purchased it, I looked into the oil/pull through recess in the butt to see if the bits were still in there, instead I found a rolled piece of oily paper which gave me the history of the rifle from 02/10/50 - 31/ 12/59. It belonged to a prison warder and the paper tells me which prisons he worked in between those dates. Luckily, a friend was able to translate it for me as I can't read Greek. This would almost certainly explain that it was one of the weapons given to the Greeks post WW2.
I've not bothered to describe the locations in which Ioannis, (John), Maniatis worked but do have them on file.
I would really like to find out the history of this piece prior to his acquisition of it in 1950, (year of my birth)!
All info welcome,
Guy.

**cricketchris1944** · 05-19-2010, 04:22 AM

That is a very interresting story,great find ,the serial number on the rifle should help you to find out the history of the gun .In the US the rifle serial number was keep with the name of the soldier it was given to hard to get that info but possible.

**m3bobby** · 05-19-2010, 11:38 AM

by lithgow

Hello-the river rifle is definitely a US M1917 Enfield-the curved sight protectors are slightly shorter than the P14 due to the longer .30-06 shell case needing more space to load in the receiver. Also it was found in the Meuse/Argonne region, site of a major battle between the US and Germany at the end of WW1.

Yep, I now agree, I found what I was looking for in another photo I initially dismissed. I found the hand groove in the for end which I've not seen on the P14. If its been in that river from WW1 then Wow, its done really well, if WW2 then just Wow!

**navyman** · 05-19-2010, 12:22 PM

Hello Chris,
I've just had a look at the preview of your book. It's excellent and will be going on my Christmas wanted list. I cant get it just yet as I'm saving to take myself and wheelchair to Switzerland for another ten days shooting with my club, an experience not to be missed! Because of our draconic firearms laws, it's great to be able to shoot full bore handguns, and auto/semi auto assault rifles etc. Pure air, fine food, and beautiful scenery are a bonus. I went two years ago and returned feeling fitter than I have for years.
I've just looked at the P14/17? number, arrowed, (51142), could you give me a starting point to start looking for further info on the rifle? It would be good to find out definitely whether 14 or 17.
The paper mentions that one of the prisons Ioannis served was the island Yaros which is where political prisoners were exiled. He must have chosen the best side to be on during the civil war!
Thanks for your help,
Guy.

**lithgow** · 05-19-2010, 04:37 PM

Hello-the Greek prison service rifle is a P14-the receiver is marked 'ERA' for Eddystone Remington Arms then serial no.-an M1917 would say 'US Model of 1917 EDDYSTONE' then s/no. (if it was an Eddystone made example).

**navyman** · 05-19-2010, 06:30 PM

Hello lithgow,
Thanks for that info, I think it's now ok to update the catalogue description to P14? Unless any one can tell me otherwise.
I wonder which and where, (battlefields), this old workhorse saw action during it's service life.
Cheers,
navyman.

**cricketchris1944** · 05-19-2010, 06:54 PM

by navyman

Hello lithgow,
Thanks for that info, I think it's now ok to update the catalogue description to P14? Unless any one can tell me otherwise.
I wonder which and where, (battlefields), this old workhorse saw action during it's service life.
Cheers,
navyman.

This forum is great,I can get alot of help from other collectors.I am glad you were able to get the info you needed.

**Forestwalker** · 05-20-2010, 12:19 AM

Hi Chris
Great finds in the Meuse Argonne and I like your book, I recognise the guy who has his own mueseum at Romagne, believe he`s Dutch but forget his name, he was closed when I was there this year during the storms sadly but hope to visit next year. I have similar photos to your book of the Argonne area and have found good relics over the last few years, it certainly is a great spot to hunt !
All the best
FW

**cricketchris1944** · 05-20-2010, 12:37 AM

by Forestwalker

Hi Chris
Great finds in the Meuse Argonne and I like your book, I recognise the guy who has his own mueseum at Romagne, believe he`s Dutch but forget his name, he was closed when I was there this year during the storms sadly but hope to visit next year. I have similar photos to your book of the Argonne area and have found good relics over the last few years, it certainly is a great spot to hunt !
All the best
FW

His name is Jean-paul-de-vries.He has a nice collection ,all of it was found around the village.His a friend of mine .What have you found there ,the mayor son is also a very very good friend , on my last trip there he was with me every day looking for relics good time. Any good spot