Mouse's next site (and Jays)

**cornishboy** · 07-31-2012, 06:34 PM

interesting thread,good input guys

**dangermouse** · 07-31-2012, 07:43 PM

Wow, thanks peeps. I will send the details of those 'elephant rounds' asap, however the mrs has just opened tub of hagen daz and if i dont get in there quick all i will get is a fat wife

**TonyE** · 07-31-2012, 08:06 PM

I'll tell her you said that!

Cheers
TonyE

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by Battery Command Post

Not trying to pick on you

but the 25-Pr didn't use a fixed round, it used variable non-fixed ammunition.

Rob

I thought I was the pedant round here!

Cheers
TonyE

**Steve T** · 07-31-2012, 08:55 PM

by TonyE

I thought I was the pedant round here!

Nah. Some of us will give you a good run for your money

**jayh** · 07-31-2012, 10:50 PM

Hi tony I have emailed you a couple of pics let me know what you think

**Battery Command Post** · 08-01-2012, 06:30 AM

by TonyE

I thought I was the pedant round here!

Nope

Rob

**TonyE** · 08-01-2012, 03:12 PM

Jay has asked me to post a couple of his finds together with the identification I gave him.

I will post them as separate items.

First this one. It is headstamped "WESTERN 6-15"

The round in this picture with the .303 is not an 8mm Lebel but an 11mm Gras. The Gras was the French service rifle from 1874 and continued in service as a reserve rifle in WWI. It used a lead paper patched bullet.(In fact the 8mm Lebel is based on a necked down Gras case.)

France contracted to several US companies in WWI to make ammo for them, including Western Cartridge Co. and your example was made in June 1915 (6-15).

Later in the war the French started to use the 11mm Gras cartridge in Vickers machine guns for aircraft and loaded jacketed ball, tracer and incendiary bullets, but yours is not one of these

I don't have a decent picture of a round as I only collect British ammo, but the one attached is a modern reload I lifted from another site.

Quite what it is doing on an RAF site I do not know. After Dunkirk and the rescue of a large number of French troops their weapons were issued to British forces as we were so short but I would be surprised if an 11mm Gras was still in service in 1940.

Regards
Tony

**TonyE** · 08-01-2012, 03:16 PM

Next one:

The only part of the headstamp that is legible is an "X".

This one is an American artillery primer for guns using bagged charges such as the 155mm howitzer. It was also used by British forces in guns supplied by the US. I am not sure of the model number but it may be the Mark 15 Mod 2. The "x" you see in the headstamp may be part of "XV" for fifteen. The attached picture is the Mark2A4 which is a smaller version used for lighter guns, but you can see the similarity.

Regards
Tony

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Finally, this is the really interesting one. It is a 1 inch Aiming Tube Mark IV (M) Electric.

These were used by both the army and Royal Navy as sub-calibre rounds to give economic training on big guns. A smaller 1 inch calibre barrel was fitted inside say a 6 inch gun and then the crew could drill and fire the weapon but only use the small cartridge. Various versions were used from the 1880s until the end of WW2.

Your version was introduced in 1897 and declared obsolete in June 1914, the remaining stock to be used up in training. There were two versions of the Mark IV Electric, the Mk.IV (M) with an electric primer made by the Morris Patent Tube co. (which you have) and the Mark IV (KN) with an electric primer made by Kings Norton Metal Co.

Yours was actually made by Morris as signified by the "M" at 12 o'clock. The "M" after the "IV" means it has the Morris primer. The Kings Norton version had "KN" after the "IV".

What is so interesting is that I thought only the navy used the electric version as all the army guns were percussion fired and so used the percussion version of the Aiming Tube. I will have to check on this!

Picture attached of one of mine for info (also unusual as there is no manufacturer at 12 o'clock on the headstamp.

Regards
TonyE