It might just have been an offhand remark on your part but, imo, this is like throwing stones in a glass house.
Anyway, I don't really see the harm in pocketing a rubble sized piece from what's undoubtedly a historical site, gathering up more just to sell off is another thing entirely (not directing this towards the OP as such though). Defacing buildings that are still standing, aka private property... well... that's just vandalism.
Firstly Steve T there is nothing for sale here , I respect the forum rules, I have offered a trade with any other collector who can help if they have what I would like.
Secondly I agree, this site has many pages of people digging in Russia where it is clear the relics they have come from Graves.
The relics I collect come from buildings that the authorities wish to have removed from history, yes when I collect my relics I do also take a little extra, one reason is to offer these bits to collectors that are not as fortunate as I am to be able to visit the locations.
For example Hitlers WW1 bunker is in a field in France where no one has any interest in it, over the years I have visited the bunker has cracked in two and is slowly sinking beneath the fields, history lost.
Now turning to the main question, I know the Fhurer bunker is now buried however when it was unearthed in the mid 80’s many collectors took concrete from the location, one such person of whom is close to Rochus Misch took a great big lump that bits fall from every time he picks it up, I have written to him never to get a reply:
I know also that there is a subway station in Berlin that is clad in the marble from the Reichs Chancellery (this has already been covered on this forum) that others seem to obtain relecs from (when the builders are in):
I can only reiterate Steve's comments we do not tolerate any illegal digging here and in particular the plundering of graves , many of our members work within the constraints and guidelines of the Volksbund and Russian war graves so please do not start your membership here with such comments i am fed up with new members posting these types of comment.
What i will ask of you is whose permission do you get to remove these items from the locations you visit as presumably someone still owns the land / buildings etc ?
The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )
1st July 1916
Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader
House Carles at the Battle of Hastings
I would agree with Paul E and Steve T's comments and suggest that the majority of 'Relic Hunters' on here take a most responsible approach with regard to recovering such items. To recover an item buried by time and hidden from view is about uncovering history for others to see and learn from. Relics and remains extant on the surface should be left where they are for all to experience.
Where do you draw the line? Berghof rubble? Paula Hitler's grave marker? Dietrich Eckart's headstone? The blood-soaked soil of the Somme? The barn at Tempsford? A relic from Oradour sur Glane? Peeling paint from the Mauthausen Gaskammer?
"You will never know the whole truth" ~ Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski
For me, personally, I'd easily draw the line as follows:
"Berghof rubble ________(line)______________________Paula Hitler's grave marker, Dietrich Eckart's headstone, The blood-soaked soil of the Somme, The barn at Tempsford, A relic from Oradour sur Glane"
I do find it interesting, however, that you chose to include a battlefield in between all of those other ghoulish examples. What about Stalingrad? What about Kurland? What about any of the other undoubtedly bloody and horrific battlefields that are being dug up every day (east and west) and showcased both on here and on other similar sites? How do you justify those if you cannot accept taking pieces of a brick from an overgrown bombed out building?
You just piqued my curiosity as to how you weigh one battlefield against the next in terms of what's off limits... that's all. No offense or nothing personal.
My view is that "rubble" is just that to most people... "rubble". Taking a piece from the site of a bombed out and long since torn down building does not qualify, in my book, to be included on a list along with gas chambers, grave markers and misc. places where atrocities were committed.
That said, I'm not implying that places of historic "rubble" should be cleaned out --- I just can't bring myself to heighten these cases of minor souvenir pick-ups to your other examples.
As long as one leaves graves, existing buildings and places where atrocities were committed alone I'm not going to be the one playing judge of morality. Others may differ
Heres an interesting link that was taken in 2007. it seems that the Fuhrer bunker was open at some point for this video to be filmed.
A walk through Hitler's bunker / Obersalzberg (english subs) - YouTube
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
Hmmm, I'm off to Stonehenge to steal some rocks, then maybe I'll loot Pompei and move onto stripping the Acropolis.
Last edited by Steve T; 01-31-2013 at 09:06 AM.