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Pre D Day battleground Training Area.

Article about: Wow. Love the sign and the 81mm section of tail. Great work... keep it up A hate jam with a vengeance but I love the tin! DM

  1. #161

    Default Re: Pre D Day battleground Training Area.

    Well done chaps!!!

  2. #162

    Default Re: Pre D Day battleground Training Area.

    Excellent finds Love the badge

  3. #163

    Default Re: Pre D Day battleground Training Area.

    Hey all, Been busy cleaning the casings from both trips, about 1/4th through now

    This is very interesting
    Head Stamp 42 K5 and possibly ZII?
    Attachment 451198
    This has got my imagine going, I wonder if A they were practising with Axis weapons or B they Set up Allied vs Axis battles.
    I wonder if any more will come to light whiles cleaning the rest, maybe LS has a few too


  4. #164

    Default Re: Pre D Day battleground Training Area.

    Thats a British 7.92mm Ball Mark IIz made by Kidderminster Kynoch plant. Used in the BESA machine gun and could possibly be used in the Bren 7.92mm Mk1 (Based on the Mk2 Bren) as sent to resistence groups but Tony E will be able to confirm that.

  5. #165

    Default Re: Pre D Day battleground Training Area.

    Hey John,
    I found one of those too. Mine still has the remains of a clip (probably MG), its head stamp markings are the same as your example. If it's MG fired then there must be a few more there somewhere? Cheers M3 very interesting BESA or Bren MK1 for resistant groups, I guess 7.92 was used so any captured German ammo could also be put through.

  6. #166

    Default Re: Pre D Day battleground Training Area.

    The 7.92 round will have been fired from a Tank mounted BESA machine gun. The Canadians made a 7.92 version of the Bren but thought they were sent to China.


  7. #167

    Default Re: Pre D Day battleground Training Area.

    It was Inglis of Canada who made the 7.92Bren Mk 1 for the Chinese but the various covert agencies quite rightly thought it a good idea to drop them to the resistance in Europe also. The Chinese 7.92 Bren Mk1 all had CH prefixed serial numbers whereas the guns destined for resistance groups had 0T to 3T prefixes which were also used on the .303Bren Mk1. There is no chance of confusion though as the 303 gun was the usual Mk1 but the 7.92 Mk1 was actually based on the .303 Mk2 if that makes sence. There where also some post war constructed examples with 1- prefixes for example and these are known as sterile guns as they only have the serial number and 7.92bren marked on them. There are stories of these going to the CIA but no one knows for sure.

  8. #168

    Default Re: Pre D Day battleground Training Area.

    There is not much to add, m3bobby, as you have covered most of it. The round is as you say and would have been fired in a 7.92mm BESA AFV MG. British built AFVs were armed with the BESA until post war when they were replaced with the .30 Browning during the 1950s and it was not declared obsolete until 1966. At one point consideration was given to replacing the .303 Vickers in Infantry service with a ground version of the BESA on a tripod.

    Luckystrike - the reason that the BESA entered service as a 7.92mm weapon was because there was insufficient time to convert the design of the Czech ZB 53 to .303 inch before the impending war.

    The trials were mainly carried out at the Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield using Czech ammunition headstamped according to the trials reports "Z 19 XI 36" made at Brno in November 1936. Many years ago I was firing on the range at Enfield when I picked an old 7.92mm case from the dirt and found it was one fired in the trials with that exact headstamp. I still have it.

    British Military Smallarms and Ammunition
    Collector, Researcher and Pedant

  9. #169

    Default Re: Pre D Day battleground Training Area.

    Excellent stuff Tony, thanks for the extra detail and what a great relic to have a Czech cartridge from the original trials and best of all you found it yourself.

  10. #170

    Default Re: Pre D Day battleground Training Area.

    Greta find

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