I don't know what to say,........... BRILLIANT !
There. That'll do
I don't know what to say,........... BRILLIANT !
There. That'll do
WOW... did you find any with my surname?
Here are my weekend finds fresh out the ground, a good mixture with plenty of different buckles.
These all came out of a small area, only about 3 foot square and just 3 inches deep, below that is the remains of a concrete hut floor. It appears that the flooring was used as a site for the burning of lots of webbing and gas mask bags. Most of the buckles were in a thin white ashy layer, some of the ali buckles showed signs of the burning but with so many to choose from were left behind.
A close up of a couple of interesting linked buckles and a button.
The large buckle/clip (top left) interests me, it looks like the type used to clip a parachute across the chest? also notice the mechanism for a flare trip wire
another view of the robust buckle/clip. The one below that also intrigues me, looks like part of a 'suspender belt'?
WD marked glass lamp top? also notice the tree root that grew through one of the Dog Tags
and finally the relic remains of a small brass fire extinguisher, it appears to be in pretty good condition. From memory I'm sure I've seen similar mounted in jeeps and other vehicles.
That's it for now but Ill post pictures of the interesting bits once they're cleaned.
Thanks for looking.
Ps DM as requested I'll look out for tags with a 'Mouse' surname. .
Some great finds guys. Can't believe the quantity of buckles coming out of that place. Very nice markings on the cutlery WH !
LS and John.
The buckles and clips that you are lifting out are a mix of 37/44 and 58 ptn.
37ptn ones will either be brass or steel.
44ptn ones will be in various shades of anodised steel/green.
The 58ptn ones will be steel in various shades of anodised green.
The "keyhole" shaped rings are definately 58ptn. They are part of the "quick release" fittings from the back of 58ptn kidney pouches.
Depending on the size, the "spring clips" look like they are either the end clips from the bottom straps of 58ptn large packs, ie: the straps that run from the bottom of the pack and are clipped to the top of the ammo pouches when the pack was carried in CEMO (Combat Equipment Marching Order) OR they could also be the clips from the end of either a LMG or GPMG sling, (the old type sling that was like an "over-length" rifle sling) They will probably be about 1inch in width across the open section where the web-strap slid through.
The larger clips appear to be the ones from a parachute equipment attachment/drop harness.
The "D"-rings look like they are the ones that were used to connect the large pack straps to the actual pack which then had a flat hook at the other end to connect them to a similar ring on the shoulder harness of the 58ptn web harness.
The "C" clips could be either 37, 44 or 58 ptn. These were the clips used to attach ammo pouches, (and some other pouches), to the web belt.
Going on what else I can see among the buckles etc, I would, tentatively, say that the majority, if not all are 58ptn buckles and clips etc.
Hope this is of some use guys.
Good to hear from you and thank you for the amazing detail with your ID of the buckles it's really helpful. We were thinking of framing some of the various buckles found with details of use, the pattern etc, so what you've told us is invaluable thanks mate. For reference there are quite a few actually made of aluminium, which I guess helped (a little) with lowering the over all weight of the kit, but being ali Im assuming they're probably post war perhaps 58 pattern too. Very pleased to hear you also think the larger buckles could be para related.
Yes certainly a lot of buckles, they come from a separate area near the dump site where it appears a load of webbing and various packs were all burnt , the buckles and other metal relics surviving the heat. WH also got a anti dimming tube from the ash it was rusted probably due to the burning and paint loss. May be It had been tucked into the pocket of a gas mask pouch that was also burnt?
But what Im hoping to do is find the edge of this burned area and maybe find a few relics that were spared the flames
You've done a great job on the cutlery, I saw how green the spoon was before you started, very nice they're both marked I particularlly like the NAAFI knife. We got a few NAAFI bits on this visit with the cup shards as well.
@LSYou're welcome mate
Im fairly local to John, (WhiteHunter), if it can be arranged for a meet up, I should be able to do a "positive in hand ID" for you both, at least on what he has got.
By the looks of it, you've both got very similar, if not the same items.
The "aluminium" ones will most likely be early 58ptn and actually made of lightweight anodised steel.
John (WhiteHunter), if you read this, give me a call and we'll see if we can arrange a meet up as per the above.
Always glad to help when I can.
Forgot to mention, the fire extinguisher looks like the remains of an old Methyl Bromide fire extinguisher. Probably about 12>18inches in length with a "T" shaped handle/plunger at one end and a nozzle at the other.
It would originally have been either brass or steel before being repainted green or khaki and is usually seen clipped into various locations on military vehicles. The "classic" position being on the engine covers of a Bren carrier or, on the internal face of the armour either side of the hull monted Bren LMG
Last edited by jimpy; 11-23-2011 at 01:35 AM. Reason: Addition
Here are some of my cleaned finds so far.
A flat hook and an eyelet with a twist toggle.
Lee Enfield buckles?
I believe these brass buckles were used to clip the gas mask carry strap to the pouch.
These were just picked up from the surface, (left to right) a .22 cartridge, unsure of this round could it be M1 carbine?, and 2 x 9mm rounds one is a little worse for wear.
A selection of the tags.
...and now for my favourite find this trip. The Valorette Fire Extinguisher and hasn't it cleaned up well , I was careful not to over do it because I wanted to retain its history the aged relic look. Jimpy cheers mate thanks for your confirmation of it's possible use. You can see in the pics the scale against my hand so you were spot on with size and also note the nipple on the base for clipping it into its support frame.
Now a little history on The Valor Company Ltd, it was founded in 1890 and manufactured Oil Storage cabinets later moving into the manufacture of Parafin and later Gas heaters. They also pressed and pierced metal predominantly copper but I couldn't find any reference to Fire Extinguisher manufacture. However at times of war many Companies changed production to help with the war effort, so I'm guessing this is what they did. The Company appears to still be trading merged with Yale.
Picture's showing the whole label, its model number and the instructions for use.
and either end.
This button is made of an early type of plastic, I know during the war many military badges were manufactured in baklite (a war economy) so Im wondering if they did the same with the buttons?
and finally the glass lamp (type) relic with a WD arrow and Davidson marked below. The glass has got that chalky residue known as sickness caused when the salts in glass leach out. This usually only occurs in glass that has been buried for at least 50 years.
Thanks for looking .
Last edited by LUCKYSTRIKE; 11-23-2011 at 10:47 PM.
Good stuff. The buttons are wartime and were made of what they called at the time "Vegetable Ivory"
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