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Warning graphic content: St George's search group:Karelian neck

Article about: thanks for thease astonishing photos. truly mind boggoling

  1. #41

    Default Re: Warning graphic content: St George's search group:Karelian neck

    I have done some professional archaeology and it just does not seem practical on a battlefield. Even in places around here we dig up the plow zone with a bulldozer, but that could not be done on a battlefield because of the type of fill. I mean sure it is one thing if everything from that era is in one layer but with filling in holes and the newness of the sites you find plenty still on the surface, not like here where they dig up Cherokee artifacts.
    Sam

  2. #42
    eric2010
    ?

    Default Re: Warning graphic content: St George's search group:Karelian neck

    I noticed in several of the pictures there appears to be a card with a heat cut out and some writing on it. Was this a personal effect of one of the soldiers?
    Also, is that the back of a Mosin-Nagant in one of the other pics?

  3. #43
    ww2relichunter
    ?

    Default Re: Warning graphic content: St George's search group:Karelian neck

    thanks for pics!

  4. #44

    Default Re: Warning graphic content: St George's search group:Karelian neck

    This was really touching to me, as a finnish person, to see a defender of our freedom (No pictures of dead finnish soldiers released officially, ever) lying lost and forgotten in the dirt. I'm really happy they got a proper burial and everything, and more importantly, home.

  5. #45
    ?

    Default Re: Warning graphic content: St George's search group:Karelian neck

    I recently attended a small lecture at my local library regarding archeaology, as im interested in general history i thought this would be an enjoyable evening, boy was i ever wrong, this so called expert who apparently has dug in Egypt was, at first, pretty entertaining, but as the evening progressed the subject got onto battlefield digging, someone asked the question, "how different are the two types of historic digging" ie normal digs as opposed to battlefields, this "expert" slammed the diggers on battlefields and called them grave robbers, opportunists, and only there to make money from anything found, i couldnt sit by without saying something regarding the good work that has been done to repatriate the remains of the fallen to proper burial and to family, this guy was adamant that the bodies should be left in situ, the site marked and left alone, i said that much care and research into the identities of those found was paramount to reunite them with existing family members and that to avoid the possibility of the unscrupulous, the site should not be marked for anyone to be able to come along and start digging, i reminded him that nearly all the Pharoahs and Queens that had been discovered had been removed to museums for general viewing and their possessions either sifted away into private collections or displayed in the same museums, this guy would have none of it and said there was no comparision in the two , the evening was going down the drain fast until another guy stood up and stated that one of his relations had been found on the Somme some years ago, and was now buried in France and a few items had been returned to the family, again the expert said the mans body should have been left alone, i said that if it had been the chances were that it could have been ploughed over and completely destroyed, there were further disagreements from other members of the audience which resulted in the expert packing his slides up and walking off . The conclusion i gathered was that these so called experts consider themselves the only true preservers of history and that everyone else were amateurs because they didnt have university degrees or doctorates in archaeology, something that is endorsed by the TV programme Time Team, its about time that the serious and responsible battlefield diggers were recognised officially and that the groups involved be given permission to legally dig these sites before the passage of time obliterates all record

  6. #46

    Default Re: Warning graphic content: St George's search group:Karelian neck

    hear, hear!

  7. #47

    Default Re: Warning graphic content: St George's search group:Karelian neck

    Very well said Dave also well done, and a big thanks to the guys carrying out this work. Every soldier whatever side he was on deserves to be burried in a marked grave where he can be recognised as one of the millions that laid down their lifes for their country.

    Thanks

    Danny

  8. #48
    ?

    Default Re: Warning graphic content: St George's search group:Karelian neck

    @Dave:

    Well said mate, chances are I wouldnt have been as subtle.

    And as Danny has said above: "Every soldier whatever side he was on deserves to be buried in a marked grave where he can be recognised as one of the millions that laid down their life"

    Regards etc

    Ian D

    AKA: Jimpy

  9. #49
    ?

    Default Re: Warning graphic content: St George's search group:Karelian neck

    Quote by davejb View Post
    I recently attended a small lecture at my local library regarding archeaology, as im interested in general history i thought this would be an enjoyable evening, boy was i ever wrong, this so called expert who apparently has dug in Egypt was, at first, pretty entertaining, but as the evening progressed the subject got onto battlefield digging, someone asked the question, "how different are the two types of historic digging" ie normal digs as opposed to battlefields, this "expert" slammed the diggers on battlefields and called them grave robbers, opportunists, and only there to make money from anything found, i couldnt sit by without saying something regarding the good work that has been done to repatriate the remains of the fallen to proper burial and to family, this guy was adamant that the bodies should be left in situ, the site marked and left alone, i said that much care and research into the identities of those found was paramount to reunite them with existing family members and that to avoid the possibility of the unscrupulous, the site should not be marked for anyone to be able to come along and start digging, i reminded him that nearly all the Pharoahs and Queens that had been discovered had been removed to museums for general viewing and their possessions either sifted away into private collections or displayed in the same museums, this guy would have none of it and said there was no comparision in the two , the evening was going down the drain fast until another guy stood up and stated that one of his relations had been found on the Somme some years ago, and was now buried in France and a few items had been returned to the family, again the expert said the mans body should have been left alone, i said that if it had been the chances were that it could have been ploughed over and completely destroyed, there were further disagreements from other members of the audience which resulted in the expert packing his slides up and walking off . The conclusion i gathered was that these so called experts consider themselves the only true preservers of history and that everyone else were amateurs because they didnt have university degrees or doctorates in archaeology, something that is endorsed by the TV programme Time Team, its about time that the serious and responsible battlefield diggers were recognised officially and that the groups involved be given permission to legally dig these sites before the passage of time obliterates all record
    Unfortunately Dave this seems to be the prevaling attitude of those who consider themselves Archaeologists via a piece of paper they don't seem to be able to accept that people can carry out genine Archaeology if they haven't a degree, we have seen some of that on the forums before. Luckily in many of the countries now the guys who do it right and have vast expereince are the ones who are being recognised and backed officialy by paperwork to carry out what can be a very difficult task in arduous conditions where most of the Time teams poeole wouldn't even want to go , you don't see many of them in the middle of a mosquito and tick invested swamp digging a bunker for 2 solid days without the help of JCB's and Geo Phis !!!
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  10. #50

    Default Re: Warning graphic content: St George's search group:Karelian neck

    If I was to suffer the misfortune to be fatally injured in a car crash, it would (hopefully!) be considered inhuman to push the crashed vehicle containing my body to the side of the road and left in a ditch. I would be treated humanely, my family informed, effects returned and a funeral service of my family's choosing performed. Finally, my remains would be laid to rest and a permanent marker erected. Quite right too.

    However, according to certain academics within the historical world (snobs is I think a fair term) that is effectively the exact oppositie of how a soldier fighting and dying for his or her country should be treated.

    It is a topsy turvy world.

    If a family is informed and they state they wish their loved to remain in situ, then that's fair enough but I still think there is a moral obligation to at least search out and identify the fallen.

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