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Identify Bayonet - Possibly Italian M1891/TS Transverse Bayonet

Article about: I bought this from an Antique store in Texas. After a little bit of research, I'm assuming it's similar to the one posted on this forum here: http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/italia...ayonet-32

  1. #1

    Default Identify Bayonet - Possibly Italian M1891/TS Transverse Bayonet

    I bought this from an Antique store in Texas. After a little bit of research, I'm assuming it's similar to the one posted on this forum here:

    Italian M1891/ TS Transverse Bayonet

    Below are the photos, but basically I was wondering if anyone could help me identify which rifle it went to specifically and possibly the value of the bayonet in general. I would love to try and restore the wooden grip/handle too, but not sure yet how to approach it. Eventually, it would be nice to find a working rifle in the states and complete the whole setup.

    Blade Length: 11 inches
    Blade to Hilt: 11 5/8 inches
    Grip Length: 4 1/8 inches

    Marking on Hilt: AD 8960

















    Thank you,
    Chris

  2. #2

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    Greetings Chris,

    Your bayonet is an M1891/97 T. S. (Truppe Speciali) “Special Troops” Bayonet. Here’s an Italian website that shows plenty of pictures of the rifle/bayonet (Carcano 91 TS (Truppe Speciali)). If you drop the website’s url into a translator like (Bing Translator) you can read it in English (Although you may lose the pictures when doing so).

    Additionally, here’s an example of a complete bayo’s set currently on eBay, once it sells you will have a rough answer on valuation (Italian Model 1891 TS Second Variant Bayonet Super RARE | eBay).

    I admire your desire to repair the one you have, but even if repaired since it’s not all original (i.e. replaced grips) & without scabbard the value will be substantially lower than the one I've hotlinked that's currently on eBay (IMHO).

    Regards,

    Lance

  3. #3

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    Hi Chris,

    Thanks for linking my previous thread. I'm glad to see it was of some use to you!

    As Lance said, your bayonet is for the M91TS Carcano. These handy little rifles were meant for "special troops"... artillery men, supply troops... In general, it was supposed to be issued to support troops who had to use their hands for other things and could keep this small rifle slung on their back for quick access if necessary. The Italian military in WWI and WWII was known for horrible supply chain logistics... As such, these rifles also made it into the hands of "normal" infantry. As long as an Italian soldier could aim and fire a rifle, they'd use it!

    Here are some period photos:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here are some photos of my 1915 dated, Brescia Arsenal M91TS:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is a video of me firing it for the first time since WWI!


    Here are some photos of my TS bayonet:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    TS bayonets are FAR more rare than M91TS rifles. In two years of actively searching for one for my collection, I had only seen two TS bayonets for sale. One was a pitted, rusted mess and the vendor wanted a FIRM $250 for it. The other was improperly listed on ebay as an "old Italian knife" and I quickly scooped it up for what I consider a steal of a price after a short bidding war!!

    Unfortunately, your bayonet seems to be missing not only it's grips and scabbard, but also the rear mounted pommel button that would release the bayonet lug catch. You could easily fabricate and attach your own set of repro wooden grip panels, but I doubt you'll ever find a spare catch mechanism unless you are capable of fabricating your own. With that being said, your bayonet is worth more than a lot of people would think considering it's condition and it's certainly a nice/ rare piece of history!

  4. #4

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    Thank you both for the quick responses on this! Lance, I'm pretty sure you nailed it on the head. All arrows pointed to the Special Troops rifle, I just wanted to hear someone else agree.

    Quote by GIZMO8Z View Post
    TS bayonets are far more rare than M91TS rifles. In two years of actively searching for one for my collection, I had only seen two TS bayonets for sale. One was a pitted, rusted mess and the vendor wanted a FIRM $250 for it. The other was improperly listed on ebay as an "old Italian knife" and I quickly scooped it up for a steal of a price after a short bidding war!!
    This may blow your mind, I only paid $18 for this bayonet at an Antique store. Was tagged "Old Rusty Sword"!

    Quote by GIZMO8Z View Post
    Unfortunately, your bayonet seems to be missing not only it's grips and scabbard, but also the rear mounted pommel button that would release the bayonet lug catch. You could easily fabricate and attach your own set of repro wooden grip panels, but I doubt you'll ever find a spare catch mechanism. With that being said, your bayonet is worth more than a lot of people would think considering it's condition and it's certainly a nice/ rare piece of history!
    Completely agree on the low quality, but I wouldn't restore this bayonet for profit/resale. Only for the satisfaction of restoring something old and historic. I will however have issues with fixing the catch mechanism. Question: how exactly is it supposed to operate? My assumption is that you pull the round peg to lock it? Or does it have a spring that holds it in place?

  5. #5

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    I should also mention that the transverse bayonet mounting style was quickly abandoned by the Italians and is only seen on the M91TS. I believe many M91TS rifles had their transverse lugs swapped out for traditional bayonet lugs.

    While both my M91TS and bayonet are nearly 100yrs old and have some wear to them... I can certainly say that the bayonet is wobbly when mounted. As such, I can definitely understand why the Italians abandoned the system...

  6. #6

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    Quote by utstephens View Post
    Question: how exactly is it supposed to operate? My assumption is that you pull the round peg to lock it? Or does it have a spring that holds it in place?
    The pommel button is spring loaded and is pressed to move the catch forward and out of the way, leaving the mounting channel of the bayonet clear. You then put the barrel ring of the bayonet over the muzzle of the rifle and rotate the handle of the bayonet so the bayonet mates with the bayonet lug. Once everything is in place, you let go of the button and the catch engages the bayonet lug and locks everything in place.

    Hope this makes sense!

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