questions about STEN bayonet

[bichon]

Hello
can you show me a real Sten bayonet ?
I know it's very scarce
there is a debate on french forum
these bayonets always have a maker stamp like B&JS Ltd or not
a bayonet with no mark could be good ?
thanks for answers
cordially
Didier

[Battery Command Post]

I was under the impression that the B&JS Ltd bayonets were known Indian-made fakes. Ade S mentioned the same here: No. 4 MK2 Spike Bayonet so maybe he's the man to elaborate further? I have an unmarked Sten bayonet myself, but really have never been able to confirm it's authenticity.

They were made by three manufacturers: Grundy Ltd, Lines Bros, and N J Edmunds Ltd, and so should have their maker marks on them, if anything (or one of the parts suppliers). A company called B & J Sippel Ltd were given a contract for "hardening and tempering" of these bayonets in January 1944, so that's your B&JS.

Total production was about 75,800, but most are reported scrapped soon after the war, hence their rarity.

I will post a pic of mine, but I am not sure if it's a real one or not (actually I would like to know too).

Rob

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Didier, I have only seen one good one for sale and that was £250 many many years ago now. I know it was marked but I cannot now recall what they were sorry.

Cheers, Ade.

[Battery Command Post]

Here is my example. I really have no idea if it is genuine or a copy, mainly because I have never had any known original to compare it with:



Rob

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Rob, I learn towards repro due to the lack of markings. The waters are well and truly muddied on these, due to like we said, few originals around, and several different people making copies.

Cheers, Ade.

[Stinkpotpete]

According to The Spirit of The Pike, there were Sten bayonets that were unmarked, he even has a picture of one, but the springs and welds on the bayonets in the book look different from yours. Your spring and lug sit alot higher, and look like the reproductions from India, and the selds are filled in more like the Indian ones.

B.&J. Sippel made the parts, and marked them B.J.S.LTD and had a dispersal code of N 152, this was marked on the spring or socket, or both. The bayonets themselves were completed by Grundy(Teddington) Ltd Somerset Works, Teddington, Middlesex and N.J. Edmunds Ltd. Elmbrook Garage, Sutton, Surrey. It only mentions a marking for Grundy that was a G inside of a circle.

[Battery Command Post]

Hi Rob, I learn towards repro due to the lack of markings. The waters are well and truly muddied on these, due to like we said, few originals around, and several different people making copies.

Cheers, Ade.

Well, thanks for looking at it anyway. My opinion on it has always been that its likely to be a copy just by the laws of probability, but without actual examples for comparison, who knows? It looks nice on my Sten Mk II anyway

Rob

[Battery Command Post]

B.&J. Sippel made the parts, and marked them B.J.S.LTD and had a dispersal code of N 152, this was marked on the spring or socket, or both. The bayonets themselves were completed by Grundy(Teddington) Ltd Somerset Works, Teddington, Middlesex and N.J. Edmunds Ltd. Elmbrook Garage, Sutton, Surrey. It only mentions a marking for Grundy that was a G inside of a circle.

Where is this information from, the Spirit of the Pike book? Because it's definitely not correct. There were several sub-contractors making parts for the Sten bayonets, I have the contract lists here. N152 is actually Sippel's military Contractor Code, i.e. the official maker mark that all companies were supposed to use (it means 'north of England Contractor #152'), although many companies still put their logos etc on parts. Grundy's code was S41 and Edmunds' was S356.

Rob

[Stinkpotpete]

Yes, it's from The Spirit of The Pike. British Socket Batonets of The Twentieth Century, by Graham Priest. He called it a dispersal code and a distribution code. Sorry, I didn't quite write that right. He lists the contract numbers and the contractors in the book as well, but I just meant that Sippel made parts, not the bayonets themselves, bevcause Sippel was the one mentioned in the first 2 posts, not to say that Sippel was the only contractor.

Paul

[Battery Command Post]

Yes, it's from The Spirit of The Pike. British Socket Batonets of The Twentieth Century, by Graham Priest. He called it a dispersal code and a distribution code. Sorry, I didn't quite write that right. He lists the contract numbers and the contractors in the book as well, but I just meant that Sippel made parts, not the bayonets themselves, bevcause Sippel was the one mentioned in the first 2 posts, not to say that Sippel was the only contractor.

That's OK, it's not you that's using weird/incorrect terminology (or inventing things from his imagination, or whatever is happening here), it's Mr Priest. I have never seen the book, so I don't know. I'm using information from Ian Skennerton, although I don't have Sippel as a parts manufacturer.

Rob