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Artillery officer visor cap genuine?

Article about: Dear members, could you please help me identifying whether this visor is genuine or not? Many thanks in advance. Cheers, cod552

  1. #1
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    Default Artillery officer visor cap genuine?

    Dear members,

    could you please help me identifying whether this visor is genuine or not?

    Many thanks in advance.

    Cheers,

    cod552


    Artillery officer visor cap genuine?Artillery officer visor cap genuine?Artillery officer visor cap genuine?Artillery officer visor cap genuine?Artillery officer visor cap genuine?Artillery officer visor cap genuine?Artillery officer visor cap genuine?

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  3. #2
    MAP
    MAP is online now
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    Look fine to me. Like the shape!
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  4. #3
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    Thanks a lot for your opinion MAP!

  5. #4

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    Looks fine to me also!
    Do not see any red flags on this one.
    Best regards,
    Lt. Col
    Ullergaard

  6. #5
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    Quite worn but nice. The only thing I don't like too much are the cap cords - I wonder whether they are original to the cap. We know that there were period reverse twisted cords and we know there were period cords that were too short - both at a time? Perhaps check the cap for holes/rests of threads where other buttons might have been which hold the cord and check the "knots" of the cord - is there a metal clasp inside or plastic? Anyhow, finding suitable cap cords should be no problem, should you wish to do so.

  7. #6
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    Quote by ErWeSa View Post
    Quite worn but nice. The only thing I don't like too much are the cap cords - I wonder whether they are original to the cap. We know that there were period reverse twisted cords and we know there were period cords that were too short - both at a time? Perhaps check the cap for holes/rests of threads where other buttons might have been which hold the cord and check the "knots" of the cord - is there a metal clasp inside or plastic? Anyhow, finding suitable cap cords should be no problem, should you wish to do so.
    Thank you very much for your help!
    It will be my first visor, so sorry for my question but what exactly is a reverse twisted cord and how can you see it is too short?
    I will check with the seller as I don't have the cap in hands. Will come back with some answers hopefully

  8. #7
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    Hi cod552,
    normally officers cap cords were twisted s-wise, only very rarely you can see z-wise twisted period cords (there is a special thread on these which can only be seen by paying members) this is what I meant:

    above: normally found s-twisted cords, below: rarely found (period) z-twisted cords (the GDR usually used the z-twisted cords which doesn't mean that s-tiwsted cords are automatically original as the FRG used them on after the war - that's why I asked you to look for the core of the big knots - plastic or metal?)

    Artillery officer visor cap genuine?


    There is another thread on cap cords which are too short (can also only be seen by paying members), they existed, but were the exeption. Too short means that the big knots do not line up with the small ones, perfect length see here:

    Artillery officer visor cap genuine?

    and compare to your cap:

    Artillery officer visor cap genuine?

    You could do a search on this site for both terms and convince yourself

  9. #8
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    Quote by ErWeSa View Post
    Hi cod552,
    normally officers cap cords were twisted s-wise, only very rarely you can see z-wise twisted period cords (there is a special thread on these which can only be seen by paying members) this is what I meant:

    above: normally found s-twisted cords, below: rarely found (period) z-twisted cords (the GDR usually used the z-twisted cords which doesn't mean that s-tiwsted cords are automatically original as the FRG used them on after the war - that's why I asked you to look for the core of the big knots - plastic or metal?)

    Artillery officer visor cap genuine?


    There is another thread on cap cords which are too short (can also only be seen by paying members), they existed, but were the exeption. Too short means that the big knots do not line up with the small ones, perfect length see here:

    Artillery officer visor cap genuine?

    and compare to your cap:

    Artillery officer visor cap genuine?

    You could do a search on this site for both terms and convince yourself

    Hi ErWeSa,

    thank you so much for your detailed explanation.

    I did some research regarding the core of the knot you were talking about.
    The seller also had a spare chinstrap to compare. (Which has the usual S-wise twist)

    The first one is the one attached to the visor:

    Artillery officer visor cap genuine?

    THe second one is the spare chinstrap to compare:

    Artillery officer visor cap genuine?

    For me it looks like the first one is plastic and the second one metal, do you agree?

    He exchanged the chinstraps and attached the spare one to the visor to see regarding the length. Compared to the "original" chinstrap, this one gives approximately the same length when attached to the visor as you can see on this picture:

    Artillery officer visor cap genuine?

    Comparison of both chinstraps (upper one "original" Z twisted chinstrap, lower one spare S twisted chinstrap)

    Artillery officer visor cap genuine?

    Furthermore I looked up an Artillery visor cap in a reference book (GERMAN VISOR CAPS of the Second World War) and found out that the chinstrap looks identical (except for the length) to the one which is "original" to my visor:

    Artillery officer visor cap genuine?

    Artillery officer visor cap genuine?

    I hope everything is not too confusing what I was trying to explain. I am looking forward to your answer.

    And thanks again for your help, much appreciated!

    Best regards,

    cod552

  10. #9
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    cod552, no problem!

    To me both cords seem to have a metal core. I like the second one (which is not on the cap) better - the threads of the knot wrap more neatly around the core (hide the core better).

    Impossible to say whether the z-wise twisted cords are original to the cap but I don't think so.

    To the cords in the book: Don't trust books too much! GDR-cap cords tend to be longer than WWII cords - as you can see in the picture the cords are too long for this cap, so I tend to believe they aren't original to the cap.

    That the z-wise twisted cords offered by your seller don't fit the cap either isn't too surprising as they came in differnt lengths. Apart from that one can slightly adjust the length by twisting the cords a bit or untwisting them, just turn each of the cords a bit in either direction - they will tighten up and get shorter or loosen and get longer. Those on the cap (the z-wise twisted ones) seem rather loose and are still too short.

    Another point is (and that is why I asked you to check the cap - when you have it in your hands - for holes/rests of threads where different buttons might have been attached - closer to the visor, presently they are quite distant (see picture below) - this was sometimes also the case in period caps - the buttons simply were sewn too far apart. (Cp. also the pictures of the knots in post # 7 - in the first picture the button is close to the visor and the cords fit; in the second - your cap - quite far away so that the cord necessarily is too short.)

    Anyway, the cap is good, don't bother too much about the cords, you can get some fitting ones if you wish to.Artillery officer visor cap genuine?
    Last edited by ErWeSa; 05-17-2019 at 07:03 PM.

  11. #10
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    Sent mail with further info.

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