Not to be argumentative, I'd bet dollars to doughnut holes that if you polled 100 people who were ignorant (as I've freely admitted to being) they'd agree with me. Obviously I'm completely stupid and uninformed as you folks seem to feel the need to point out. I guess I'll stick to doing research (silently) so as not to expose myself to further hazing over something as simple as this cap comparence. I leave you folks to it as I have obviously gotten the spirit of the site completely wrong. I still thank you guys for your advice and apologize for my ignorance. Have a nice day.
10-05-2016 03:21 AM
"have obviously gotten the spirit of the site completely wrong".....well, that's one bit that I would have to agree with. No one is calling names or insulting-and certainly nothing that I would call "hazing". Being overly sensitive to critiques is not a practical way to collect. I am sorry indeed that you have come away feeling like this, but this is the highest quality group of collectors on the net today-including the much famed WAF. If you are prepared to take your ball and leave in a huff after your very first disappointing attempt, I guess that would be your prerogative, but it would also be your loss-both now and in your collecting future. Good luck, in any case. Military collecting is a huge mine field and voluntarily throwing away the help and assistance of many long time collectors will hopefully not come back to cost you with errors....
"Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."
I have read through this entire thread 3 times. Have not seen any evidence of hazing, in fact, only ample support and guidance from everyone, and specifically from a few of the finest and foremost authorities on SS headgear.
You are 100% correct however that almost anyone you ask would be ignorant in this field, that is why it takes years (not hours or weeks) of study and research. SS regalia is heavily faked and not for novices given the extremely high prices they demand. Even on this forum, most members fit into this category (myself included) and will only consider an item with the help of these fine experts.
Which gets me back to my point. These guys went out of their way to provide you with all the evidence needed to help you out. No hazing just advice.
Remember, it is easy to miss interpret written text. So no need to stay silent.....It appears that you have much to contribute...based on your self described knowledge of firearms.
My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them
"Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)
Frankly, I do not think anyone here has considered you stupid. You are a beginner and naturally, uninformed. I wish there had been an internet and forums back in the day when I started collecting in 1956. It would have saved me thousands of dollars over the many years of collecting. You came here for opinions on your cap and unfortunately for you, it was a stinker. We ALL have been there snf know the pain of being taken. If you want to learn and collect, this is the forum to be on as there are many seasoned and experienced collectors here. I hope you can obtain a refund and remain an active member here.
by big E
LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.
Blimey. I've been dealing and collecting for 40 years, and I'm always asking for opinions.....ask the guys
Seriously, I stay away from SS items, unless they are rock solid I'm still not sure on the arm eagles - and I've had loads of them -
When you're wounded and left of Afghanistan's plains,
An' the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle an' blow out your brains,
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." - Rudyard Kipling
Accept my apology if I got it wrong. I understand being corrected if I gave wrong information on something. I simply made a statement about my personal taste in appearance of an item. That I perfer the working man's version of head wear to the officer's version. The statement was about the shape of a hat that I personally prefer. I was corrected on the point of it being a "working" man's cap. In good spirit I accepted that statement and light heartedly explained my thinking on why I had mis spoke and what I meant by it. Then, again I needed to be reminded about how wrong I was, after explaining that it was just a passing remark based on my own ignorance. I don't know how many times I need to admit my complete ignorance and humble myself. I realize how much knowledge you folks have and I know what that's worth to a beginner collector like myself, I guess I just didn't know that I had jumped into the deep end of the pool. I am a member of several internet message boards and am a moderator on two of them (fishing boards). I can say that I have never went out of my way to make someone aware of their short comings when they came there seeking help and knowledge. Again, please accept my apologies for being in a huff, guess it just rubbed me the wrong way. I know better than to get mad at a message board. I should have learned by now when I'm being baited and just ignore it. Thank you for the help.
I hadn't bought any of the caps yet, I was seeking information before buying (thank goodness). Thank you for the kind words and encouragement.
by BOB COLEMAN
It was simply good natured ribbing , and we realized that humour doesn't always translate well . But please don't take it personally , we only try to lighten the mood now and then . Wait till you post some awards and get to hear from Big Ned , our resident comedy writer . I myself posted a HJ dagger with a rare inscription , the inscription had similarities to a 70's porn movie , so it was called a porn dagger for half a page of replies . But in the end , after the fun , I learned a lot about this rare example of a HJ dagger . So take the critiques with a grain of salt , and don't let it get under your skin . You will learn a lot around here .
Knowledge of German society in the 19th and 20th century constitutes a prerequisite for collecting this regalia. Assumptions based on contemporary, i.e. 2016 US society as pertains to the regalia and organization of the SS or of any military or paramilitary organization in German from 1890 until 1945 are usually wrong. These are unpleasant facts, but they are also unmovable truths. If you post a cap that costs around USD 3000 in its authentic form, then we here can assume a level of ambition that diverges from the purchase of groceries in a convenience store. In other words, lack of knowledge poses a trap to you and a challenge to the people who step up to help you, who receive no payment, and who have learned the hard way, when as Bob mentions, there were no public utilities as this one in order to collect.
This process is public and it is not especially pleasant, but these realities press down on anyone who wants to collect German military items. The give and take here is polite, but also strenuous,
as some of us teach history at an advanced level for a living. Such a statement repulses many here, but some of us actually do, and it is an art and a science. The science part concerns how to deal with the remnants of the past. In German it is called: Quellenkunde, that is, the rigorous study of the sources and what they do and do not say to us. The art arises from the imponderables and the unknown unknowns, which in the SS field are predominate. Some buffs are excited by all the electric pictures, and the promptly fall
into a trap. It is only we here who can free you of that trap. And, it took me the better part of about fifty five years to be able to make these posts. I did not do it
taking pictures of yesterday's meals or of smiling into the digital camera.
One thing I learned while growing up was to take criticism, even when it was not given. My post as to head wear and class and estate in Germany was hardly intended
as a criticism of you. Your statement might make sense if you looked at a street scene in the Germany of the 1950s, but not in the 1920, i.e. when the SS began its odd and violent career. These posts are read by hundreds or more, and they have to be as close to the truth as we can get them.
I realize that my telling you to buy books might take a bite out of your budget, but blowing USD 3000 on a cap worth about ten dollars US seems to me
to pose a greater threat to your budget. Exacting and acute knowledge of a very linear type is the basis for success as an SS collector.
Anything less assures disappointment and heartbreak. As Bob mentions, we have all had our share of disappointments.
Might I also note that I am reamed out in public by other personages here on a regular basis, and I accept it as part of scholarship. Being reamed out in a painful way
has been central to my life as a scholar for about forty plus years, and I actually think it has some merit. Such a thing does not accord with the expectations of those
who have never endured any criticism, but with SS regalia, the truth is especially brutal. Most of what you see is fake. This statement especially applies to armor items of the Waffen SS. The means to determine authenticity are
very difficult and do not lend themselves to a check list. I have also earned my role here by a lot of hard work, and if I appear to be immodest or intemperate in my
posts, then look at my 21,000 posts and how often I have been asked by a stranger to identify something as to its authenticity and how many times I have received
any thanks, to say nothing of any compensation.
Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 10-05-2016 at 10:09 PM.