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The Rarest of SA Kepis?

Article about: This cap is a real puzzlement. I do not believe it has any connection with SA Gruppe Hochland or even the SA. The Gruppe color at the top is incorrect for Hochland. There is also a lack of R

  1. #11

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    This cap is a real puzzlement. I do not believe it has any connection with SA Gruppe Hochland or even the SA. The Gruppe color at the top is incorrect for Hochland. There is also a lack of RZM tag in the cap. The construction of this piece is believeable along with the well made edelweiss with the red cross on top.
    As Stonemeint mentioned to me in a PM, the aging is believable and it would be very expensive to tool up to make the edelweiss insignia. Thinking out loud, could this possibly a cap worn by a non SA man working as a medic at a SA winter sportfest? If this was not made for a NSDAP functionary, that might explain the lack of a RZM tag. I do not think that this is a fantasy piece from what I see in the pictures.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

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  3. #12

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    This is what I like about this forum--civilized discussion and the offering of informed viewpoints.

    This Kepi presents the same conundrum that the Heer White-top Pz visor did--both look good, but a total absence of regulations/documentary evidence to support such an item.

    Hopefully, with the passage of time we will learn the answer to these riddles.
    NEC SOLI CEDIT

  4. #13

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    Hope indeed one day a photo or so will pop up. A regulation or even a letter would be better.
    For the time being I have my thoughts. For someone knowing to make caps it is a piece of
    cake to make such strange cap.

    Throw away the idea it might not being SA. Remind that it was not allowed to produce such
    a cap according regulations and standards from the RZM. A non SA men was not allowed to
    wear a cap in the style for the SA. And then with such insignia?? Come on! They were protected
    by law. Someone walking in the street with such a cap, showing such eagle, was soon arrested
    by any sort of Streifendienst or even by the police, as a cap as shown in this style is way
    too much striking!!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  5. #14
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    Taking all the above comments on board.
    I bought this at the MAX, and was very happy to find it.
    I was accompanied by Derek Chapman, and we both examined it very thoroughly, and were both very satisfied it was an original piece.
    I am still researching the piece, and, hopefully, I might find a mention in the UM or even the RZM mitteilungsblatte.
    In the meantime, why would a faker make such a piece and just one......easier to make a high officer or rare farbe?
    As we know not everything was strictly as per regulation, as seen in many images from the period.
    At the moment it is speculative, and the only evidence is its perfect construction and aging. (don't forget, if it was produced for a winter sports
    event it would not see much use).
    Also as an officer piece, and even a small order item or private pirchase, it might not bear an RZM tag.
    In themmeantime, it is certainly a beautiful example, and i am quite happy to have it.
    Peter.

  6. #15

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    You will not find it in the UM, nor in SuS and surely not in the Mitteilungsblatt RZM.
    I would know. Have no further comment!
    I suggest you to read post 13 and who says it is for winter sports?
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  7. #16
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    Can we have some better photos of it in detail please?

    My first impression and comments were a bit premature. There are elements I can see now that would give me reason for concern but I'm no Kepi expert.

    Never the less, I am familiar with period German workmanship.

  8. #17

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    As Peter says, I inspected the kepi with him. I liked all the elements of the cap, including the Edelweiss badge, and the age of all the materials felt absolutely right. Quite frankly, if Peter had not bought it, I would have. The price was not extortionate and it is an extremely interesting cap. Well worth taking a flyer on in my opinion.
    Not to be argumentative, but I can't totally agree with Wim's comment about a possible co-incidence with the publication of Volume V of his cap book, (which, like all the volumes, I admire and refer to constantly by the way). I posted online about the various white hats, including the RAD caps, a long time ago after going through Hoffmann's photographs at the National Archives; so the existence of variant white caps is not really a new thing.
    I too love documentation and rely on it to solidify my knowledge, but I have to say that there have been several occasions when I have found period photographs showing examples of caps or insignia that don't readily conform to standard practice.
    I really do hope that a photograph of this particular hat comes to light.
    D'Alquen

  9. #18

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    As BenVK says: better photographs are needed, anyway from the top piping and inner material.

    BUT.... who knows after all for the SA was indeed intended to be introduced a white cap.
    October 10 Peter mailed me and said: I believe it was possibly produced for the summer olympics 1936.
    Now the cap is subscribed to winter games. In post 14 he says "winter sports". Whatever!

    In post 10 I said why there was not a white cap for the NSKK for the Olympic Games. That is true.
    I however totally had forgotten about a fact, which I wrote about in volume 4 for the headgear-series
    "Headgear of Hitler's Germany", (page 314). Age is playing games with me!

    There was a white cap introduced for the NSKK in spring 1938. Such a cap was intended to be used when
    travelling in other countries (Auslandsreisen) and with national and international racing games (for
    example when the ONS and OMB were involved (Oberste nationale Sportbehörde für die Deutsche Kraftfahrt).

    This cap had a white visor from cloth and above this silver cords were worn (instead of a leather chin strap).
    The cut for the cap was entirely as for the regular NSKK cap. A national emblem was not mentioned in the
    Verordnungsblatt der Korpsführung (NSKK) from May 1, 1938, but ranking braids were. No black top was
    mentioned either. So the cap must have been totally in white.

    A cap like this was not found in wearing. Maybe it was intended to wear such a cap also by members from the SA
    when assigned to the games as mentioned. But then: why a blue top?
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  10. #19

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    I dont want to interfere with all you guys who know far more than me,but would the red cross and white hat symbolize a medic or high ranking Doctor?..no idea on authenticity..i do like the look of it though from an aesthetic point of view...just read Bobs suggestion of this,sorry i missed that

  11. #20

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    Quote by bboywizard View Post
    I dont want to interfere with all you guys who know far more than me,but would the red cross and white hat symbolize a medic or high ranking Doctor?
    Actually, the combination of the Edelweiß flower with the Geneva Cross would appear to imply some mountain rescue connection.

    For a very long time, an Edelweiß-and-Red-Cross design - in one stylistic variant or the other - has been the traditional symbol of the German Red Cross' mountain rescue service (i.e., the Bergwacht or its predecessor, the Gebirgs-Unfalldienst).

    Some random examples:

    Bergwacht (Deutschland)
    Bergwacht Bayern: Vergangenheit
    http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/non-co...e-badge-85915/

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