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SS EM Visor for Review

Article about: Hats, and hats and hats.......

  1. #1
    ?

    Default Re: a black SS officer's cap of early make

    Oh great, bring the controvery over here as well!

    Just kidding, it would be nice if we can have a more open discussion about it here but this seems to be a very touchy subject for some.

    I'm happy to say that if the cap itself turns out to be a ground up reproduction without a doubt, it certainly had me fooled. Tags are a different story however, I've never really studied them in that much detail.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: a black SS officer's cap of early make

    Tags are not my bailiwick either. Hat looked good back in 2007. If a ground-up repro, I am surprised that we have not seen more of them since then.
    NEC SOLI CEDIT

  4. #3

    Default Re: a black SS officer's cap of early make

    In fact, I have seen several of these well made fakes. I am mystified that the thing is such an issue among you and you are just catching on, nor am I enjoined here to instruct the fakers how to already improve their work yet more still under the putative guise of enlightenment. By making the fakes even better, the people you claim to help will only suffer more than they have.
    I have seen several of these in the hands of advanced collectors and dealers in the last two to three years, the names of whom I shall not discuss here out of good order and discipline.
    Do me a big favor, and go back to the lord of the flies site with this junk and keep it out of here. I asked for a "is it fake?" sub forum, and that is where this discussion belongs.
    This post about the cap should be moved, and since one or more of you is a moderator, kindly do so.Attachment 219159Attachment 219161Name:  books x 1 .jpg
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    damit, basta.

  5. #4

    Default Re: a black SS officer's cap of early make

    This thread has treated caps made more or less prior to 1936 or 1937, and does not have the purpose to engage in the stupid, lame brained exchanges that afflict other sites with freak shows of the latest fakes, the most crooked dealers, the heroic collector, and the drivel that makes our inquiry nearly pointless.Name:  books.jpg
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    damit, basta.

  6. #5

    Default Re: SS EM Visor for Review

    OK, posts moved here. Regarding this cap's discussion as to what makes it a fake, we have agreed to keep in private so as to not aid the fakers. The consensus is among the SS collectors that this is a fake of recent vintage, and there are more than this one. I have not seen this type of fake before until this one. Obviously, it has its charactersitics, so avoid any one you see that looks like this one.
    Last edited by stonemint; 07-08-2011 at 09:23 PM.
    NEC SOLI CEDIT

  7. #6

    Default Re: SS EM Visor for Review

    Thank you. I think if you compare the chin strap to originals, you will also find oddities. There are more details that make this well made fake dangerous, and it is has existed since the middle of the last decade. Robert Hassler made a useful post on the website I detest to this effect. I am not alone in my harsh judgment, joined as I am by another noted collector authority who shall remain anonymous.
    If this seems like McCarthyism, then I did not start it, and I am sorry, but my work on these site has done a great deal of damage in retrospect, and I feel akin to Robert Oppenheimer having invented the A bomb.
    In the end, we have improved the fakes which have damaged others. I do not know how to address this problem, but I see no reason to be the murder board for a central European fake ring that has access to rich resources to make good fakes.
    The result will be to damage my own collection and investment in it, though that has never been my primary goal.
    Perhaps the above explains my anger and frustration in my posts above.

    sapere aude.
    damit, basta.

  8. #7

    Default Re: SS EM Visor for Review

    My goal in the past has been solely to illustrate authentic items, or what I have thought to be thus, as well as to encourage such figures as d'Alquen to share his remarkable primary sources, the sum of which should enable the collector to make his or her way.
    The autopsy of fakes is all well and good, to be sure, but I hate check lists, think the term "textbook" is idiotic, and also believe that the false security that the check list approach gives to the poorly informed collector is a crutch which will then break in the real stresses and strains of this odd and peculiar world.
    On the other site, of course, the discussion about all of this is as half cocked as such usually is, and surely, you who read this can ignore and or greet what I have written with peals of laughter and running noses of mirth.
    The devil is in the detail in all things, and the close study of details, even with electric pictures, has its merits.
    There is no harm, either, in owning more than one of these items, which in many cases is an impossibility for young collectors of beginners with a rich purse and little experience, as I know from my correspondence.
    I, for one, am just sick and tired of how these debates always end in a donnybrook.
    damit, basta.

  9. #8

    Default Re: SS EM Visor for Review

    Let me also say, finally, in response to the recriminations on the other site, that I surely find no fault with Mr. Ben VK as to an earlier assessment of this cap in another context. The reproach tabled by some in this regards in the year 2011 is out of place and inappropriate.
    None of us is a god with these things, and no one, it seems to me, must engage in total disclosure of all things, even when some theories are less than gelled and final.
    I simply do not want to make the fakes better with an even more high resolution check list of flaws. Let me be damned, but it is so.

    Any collector who proposes to spend several thousand dollars on this item or one similar has the responsibility to inform himself through his own effort versus the seeking of alibis with others. Surely the resources we have put in the internet beggar the imagination when I consider that for years I had virtually no visual aids other than period photographs of lousy quality in order to make my way as a young collector. The expectation that a beginner can blunder around and then be rescued by someone from behind the screen does a disservice to himself and also to those of us who have as volunteers taken on the imperfect and unregulated role of offering some guide from our own limited experience.

    There should be a grading system and a process of accreditation before one can spend a large sum on one of these caps.Name:  kot1_300x226_small.jpg
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    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 07-09-2011 at 05:14 PM.
    damit, basta.

  10. #9

    Default Re: SS EM Visor for Review

    I will also chime in on this piece. In the late 90's, I was taken in by an earlier genreation of this faker. The work is very good but the truth is in the details.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  11. #10

    Default Re: SS EM Visor for Review

    Quote by BOB COLEMAN View Post
    I will also chime in on this piece. In the late 90's, I was taken in by an earlier genreation of this faker. The work is very good but the truth is in the details.
    Thanks for yours. An unending story, surely and not an edifying one in the re telling.
    The shoot the messenger upshot that has accrued on the other site brings no honor to those who resort to such an old saw.

    Canards and the like will scarcely enable one to collect this stuff. Nor is the answer: "So now I will never collect SS regalia." Had such been my guide after a blow to the pocket book and psyche, I would have collected Jim Beam bottles.


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    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 07-09-2011 at 05:08 AM.
    damit, basta.

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