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SS Kratzchen

Article about: I had thought that said object was outed as a fake. In 1933 such as it was, the runes were not yet in use in black peaked caps, this feature having been introduced later, I think.....with go

  1. #11

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

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ID:	269376Thanks to Bob Coleman for his defense of the word "Allgemeine" to include its proper spelling, which, alone, signifies a major feat in these spaces.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 11-24-2011 at 05:30 PM.
    damit, basta.

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  3. #12

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    As Friedrich-Berthold points out, these caps were not only worn by the LAH but by other SS groups. The SA also had a brown version.
    I have included an image of members of Politische Bereitschaft Wurttemburg in the winter of 1933/34 having fun with their kraetzchen. (Also note the NCOs' grey field caps being worn 5 years prior to the date some would have you believe they were introduced.)
    Period photographs show these caps to be more likely to have resembled the soft, floppy example posted in post #3. There was a slightly stiffer version produced, (the one seen in Riefenstahl's fillm), but the shape is significantly different to the example shown. As has been pointed out the materials and stamps are really not appropriate for the this period.
    I know of only one example that was likely to be genuine. It was in the US and had red material behind the skull. It disappeared from view about 40 years ago I have no knowledge of its whereabouts now.
    A few years ago I did a series of pamphlets on the early hats. Do feel to PM me your email address if you would like me to send a PDF of the one on the kraetzchen.
    d'alquen
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  4. #13

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

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    Quote by d'alquen View Post
    As Friedrich-Berthold points out, these caps were not only worn by the LAH but by other SS groups. The SA also had a brown version.
    I have included an image of members of Politische Bereitschaft Wurttemburg in the winter of 1933/34 having fun with their kraetzchen. (Also note the NCOs' grey field caps being worn 5 years prior to the date some would have you believe they were introduced.)
    Period photographs show these caps to be more likely to have resembled the soft, floppy example posted in post #3. There was a slightly stiffer version produced, (the one seen in Riefenstahl's fillm), but the shape is significantly different to the example shown. As has been pointed out the materials and stamps are really not appropriate for the this period.
    I know of only one example that was likely to be genuine. It was in the US and had red material behind the skull. It disappeared from view about 40 years ago I have no knowledge of its whereabouts now.
    A few years ago I did a series of pamphlets on the early hats. Do feel to PM me your email address if you would like me to send a PDF of the one on the kraetzchen.
    d'alquen
    Thanks for your excellent research and worthy contribution to this site.
    In the old armies ( that is, prior to their end in 1918-1919) there existed a garrison version of the Kraetzchen, as well as the field version (see illustration), as was the case for peaked caps for officers and such. The garrison version was rigid more or less.
    Thanks again to d'Alquen for the kind aid.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 11-24-2011 at 05:29 PM.
    damit, basta.

  5. #14

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Quote by d'alquen View Post
    A few years ago I did a series of pamphlets on the early hats. Do feel to PM me your email address if you would like me to send a PDF of the one on the kraetzchen.
    PM sent...!

  6. #15

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

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ID:	269403The forage or field cap of this type has its origins in the early 19th century, as seen in the Pietsch work on Prussian uniforms in two volumes.
    damit, basta.

  7. #16

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Thread moved here due to consensus of the hat being a fake (and sadly, possibly a re-worked visor at that).
    NEC SOLI CEDIT

  8. #17

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Quote by stonemint View Post
    Thread moved here due to consensus of the hat being a fake (and sadly, possibly a re-worked visor at that).
    Thanks. I am not sure that said cap is re made, but it surely appears thus to me, no harm meant to Mr. Hayes or to anyone else. I surely do not want to harm his property.
    Maybe I should buy his black officer's cap. I got one like it from Manion in 1978, too, truth be told, in fact absolutely identical. I have many hats of that type, though. It is a weakness of mine, as you mentioned with chin cords and peaks....a weakness.

    Someone should show us the brown SA Kraetzchen mentioned by colleague d'Alquen, as that would be intriguing. The whole Ausbildungswesen uniform of the SA is a topic in its own right, with a strong link to the SSVT via leading personnel.
    damit, basta.

  9. #18

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    I have not seen an SA Kratzchen, even in photographs--that would be a treat.

    Continuing on with the history of the Kratzchen, it is correct that they have their origin in the Imperial (Kaiserreich) era, and were the equivalent of the Schiffchen of later years. They are really just a schirmmuetze without a visor.

    The SS drew inspriation from the Leib-Husaren Regiments as such:
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  10. #19
    ?

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Quote by goodbuys View Post
    The caps interior consisted of the same waterproff.rust brown fabric found in other Allgemeine-SSrzm tags issue caps, along with tan or grey leather sweatband A white oilcloth SS-FIELDMUTZE or SS-TUCHMUTZE was sewn on the vinside of the sweatband along the seam of the cap.It was a popular practice to remove the wire stiffner and wash the cap in order to give it that salty appearence.
    I can only conclude that Mr.Wilson based his description of said hats on similar examples to the ones shown here already i.e. not authentic ones. I have every respect for book authors and the hard work it takes but frankly, anyone who uses this language "Allgemeine-SSrzm tags issue caps" still has a lot more studying to do and maybe shouldn't have rushed to get the book published.

  11. #20
    ?

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Quote by stonemint View Post
    The SS drew inspriation from the Leib-Husaren Regiments as such:
    But what's very evident in period Imperial photos is the width of the centre band of wool. It's not as wide as a schirmmütze and the kokarde nearly touches the piping. The black kratzchen in the photo above looks nearly as odd as the so called SS concoctions.
    Last edited by BenVK; 11-24-2011 at 08:38 PM.

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