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SS Kratzchen

Article about: I had thought that said object was outed as a fake. In 1933 such as it was, the runes were not yet in use in black peaked caps, this feature having been introduced later, I think.....with go

  1. #21

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    The real origins of said headwear are in Prussia prior to the establishment of the 2d Reich in 1871. See the Pietsch book. I believe that a version was already in wear in the wars against Napoleon.
    Kaiserreich connotes the era after 1871 until 1918. See p. 70 of vol. I of Pietsch, where the evolution of said object from the era of rising against the French yoke is interpreted in an omibus illustration.

    The field cap with the peak is also native at least to the post 1807 period of the re organization of the Prussian army after its defeat at Jena and Auerstedt.

    Someone else can scan the relevant illustrations as I do not want to break the binding of the book, nor engage my goofy scanner.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 11-24-2011 at 08:51 PM.
    damit, basta.

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  3. #22

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Quote by BenVK View Post
    But what's very evident in period Imperial photos is the width of the centre band of wool. It's not as wide as a schirmuetze and the kokarde nearly touches the piping. The black kratzchen in the photo above looks nearly as odd as the so called SS concoctions.
    Also very sage observation. Real knowledge of uniforms in the era 1933-1945 requires a command of the century prior and more in Uniformkunde.
    damit, basta.

  4. #23

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	269421The foundation of the Kaiserreich as it is called is here:
    damit, basta.

  5. #24

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Quote by BenVK View Post
    I can only conclude that Mr.Wilson based his description of said hats on similar examples to the ones shown here already i.e. not authentic ones. I have every respect for book authors and the hard work it takes but frankly, anyone who uses this language "Allgemeine-SSrzm tags issue caps" still has a lot more studying to do and maybe shouldn't have rushed to get the book published.
    How true. Authors copy each other, actually, as we have learned from life on these websites. Only a minority of people do the research to produce knowledge, and the latter is always changing. Colleague a'Alquen can engage my publisher in Berlin, if he wants, and make a killing as well as share his definitive knowledge with a wider audience. The colored coffee table books are a real dog's breakfast. Colleague d'Alquen has done the primary research, and I am blundering into it in a very incomplete way with the Uniformenmarkt and RZM circulars, but there is much more to say about these odd things.

    The secondary works are only an introduction, and a pretty incomplete one, in fact.

    Mollo remains the foundation of any interest in all of this, but there is much more detail at hand, especially in the pictorial record.
    damit, basta.

  6. #25
    ?

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Quote by d'alquen View Post
    (Also note the NCOs' grey field caps being worn 5 years prior to the date some would have you believe they were introduced.)
    And of the wool covered peak variety as well if I'm not misstaken? A most intriguing image for sure, my point about narrow centre bands is also evident here. Notice how the TK emblem, (although impossible to say of which style) is also touching the top and bottom centre piping.

    Thanks for posting such a wonderful image.. Might it be possible to study a higher resolution one?
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #26

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Messr. d'Alquen's documentary and picture research eclipses the others by far. I have a weakness for the early armed SS units, since the first serious piece of such regalia I secured forty years ago was a tunic for SSVT 1 "Deutschland," which I have never included on this site.
    The continuity of Landespolizei and Rw personnel in the SSVT was surely a factor in the use of this headwear. Did the Landespolizei in the paramilitary table of organization and equipment use such a field cap, as well? I have no expertise in police uniforms.

    PS the answer is here on this selfsame site. Click image for larger version. 

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    However, I am not sure what this image means. I also know that the paramilitary Landespolizei was militarized in the expansion of the army ca. 1934-1935, to boot.
    On all of these subjects, see either Bernd Wegner or Hans Juergen Mueller in detail.
    damit, basta.

  8. #27
    ?

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Marvelous image FB!

    The one thing that really stand out for me though in the one that d'alquen posted is that there is no mistaking the grey caps for anything other than SS. I know of no RW caps with black bands.

  9. #28

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Quote by BenVK View Post
    Marvelous image FB!

    The one thing that really stand out for me though in the one that d'alquen posted is that there is no mistaking the grey caps for anything other than SS. I know of no RW caps with black bands.

    Thanks. I am totally unsure of the meaning and context of the image I posted, other than the persons wear a combination of police and army uniforms, to include possibly the field cap...but whose?
    Of course the d'Alquen pictures signify SS caps, but the pattern of same was borrowed from other organizations, even if the details varied in the Nazi aspect.

    So many unknown unknowns in all of this, and much pleasure in learning in good company.
    damit, basta.

  10. #29

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Perhaps in this image it is a little easier to study the peaked 1934 pattern SS field cap. This is from a different branch of the PB but is around the same date as the Wurttemburg photo. These men go on to form the regiment Deutschland. Interestingly they are rank and file and yet have still been given a peaked cap. Perhaps it might be due to the fact they are bandsmen.
    d'alquen
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #30

    Default Re: SS Kratzchen

    Quote by d'alquen View Post
    Perhaps in this image it is a little easier to study the peaked 1934 pattern SS field cap. This is from a different branch of the PB but is around the same date as the Wurttemburg photo. These men go on to form the regiment Deutschland. Interestingly they are rank and file and yet have still been given a peaked cap. Perhaps it might be due to the fact they are bandsmen.
    d'alquen
    Marvelous image and many thanks.
    damit, basta.

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