Is this a WWII Ukrainian Nationalist M-43?

[AZPhil]

Hello Gent's.
I have been interested in this emblem ever since I won it on one of the sites raffles. It was also one of our members who have since passed away. So it does hold a special place in my heart and collection.

Since I got this emblem I have wanted to add it to the correct cap.

Well I ran across this cap for sale and it's advertised as a "WWII UKRAINIAN NATIONALIST M43".

Could I get your thoughts on this cap?
If real, I would like to try to add it.

Click to enlarge.





Thanks in advance for any help provided.

Semper Fi
Phil

[Gunny Hartmann]

Hi Phil, The badge is from Ukrainian Roland Battalion, not sure if i've ever seen one on an M 43 type cap though.

Edit. They did wear them

[AZPhil]

Thank you Paul,
Great period pic!
So at the least I know that they were worn on M43's.
And yes the Roland Division from what I found out when I got this from Wagriff in 2014 and started to research it.
I understand that there are not many detailed photo's of this in wear.
I also understand that M43's are a mine field , So this combo is REALLY at my limits of knowing if its Good or Not.
Hence my question.
Is this a real M43?

Do you have any info on that Pic?

Semper Fi
Phil

[AZPhil]

I am trying to get pic's of the interior, But have not heard back from the seller.
They are also referring to this as a Black Panzer M43 that was converted.
But the buttons look smooth to me and not pebbled.
Another thing I have no knowledge of.

Semper Fi
Phil

[KMMorris]

It would actually be for the Ukrainian Schuma , the Roland Battalion hat insignia is much different .
See this threat over on the WAF done by the great volunteer collector Askold.

There are more detailed photos several pages in.

Askold's WH foreign volunteer collection. - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

[AZPhil]

Thank you KM, I'll head over and read it. Semper Fi Phil

[Gunny Hartmann]

Thank you Paul,
Great period pic!
So at the least I know that they were worn on M43's.
And yes the Roland Division from what I found out when I got this from Wagriff in 2014 and started to research it.
I understand that there are not many detailed photo's of this in wear.
I also understand that M43's are a mine field , So this combo is REALLY at my limits of knowing if its Good or Not.
Hence my question.
Is this a real M43?

Do you have any info on that Pic?

Semper Fi
Phil

Sorry Phil no info on the photo, just found it on the net. Without far better more detailed photos i'd be wary of the cap, it could even be civilian.
Ukrainian volunteers in the German army!
Edit. Just found this thread.

[AZPhil]

Thank you Paul,
I did get these additional photo's of the interior liner.




I did a zoom in and I am not seeing the extra strip of material that is on normal M43 here where the visor meet the cap. But I don't know if Panzer M43 had the same material like normal Heer M43's


So please let me know your thoughts on this part of the M43.
Like Paul had mentioned this could just be a civilian cap that somebody added the badge to make more $$$ on it. We know how they do that!!

I did look at all 15 pages on the WAF site (Thank you KMM)and nothing definitive as far as this type of M43's go.

Is WAF member Askold a member here?

Semper Fi
Phil

[AZPhil]

I just noticed this also. Not sure if it helps, but I'm looking for any further help or thoughts.
There is a Ukraine stamp about the #57 stamp.
Is the 57 a size or a year???


Semper Fi
Phil

[TrondK]

57 are the size of the cap i would believe.

That Tryzub / trident stamp inside the cap was not something i like to see. I always get extremely worried when unknown stamps like that appear on items to "prove" they are what they are supposed to be. It makes me think of these questionable quality wss items w artistic rzm and ss markings all over the place.
But i cannot say for sure, and no one can say for sure if that stamp is for real if there is no further evidence of tryzub ink markings of ordinary ww2 cloth.

But i like the usage of cockade on the cap, it can have been used by any of the ukrainian volunteer units on axis side during ww2, not only the schuma i would guess.

its 0520 in the morning here, so hope my words are less confusing than normal.