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Lets see your British Army Dress/forage Caps and chat!!!

Article about: Hi, This thread is in conjuction and in support of the excellent thread covering Service Dress caps started by Nigel. Please feel free to view, show and chat about British Army Officer's Dre

  1. #51

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    Hi, As I have started the Senior Officers caps, I should finish them off.



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  2. #52

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    Hi, Just to finish off the general service senior officers caps here are the remainder. They are:

    1. Current Post 53 cap by unknown maker and almost certainly an issue item with QC device and gilded buttons. Current style plasic visor and chin strap. Current female cap.
    2. Current Post 53 cap by Herbert Johnson with QC device and gilded buttons. late style leather visor and chin strap. Circa 1970/80s.
    3. Post 53 Canadian cap by Muir with QC device and AA buttons. Early style leather visor and chin strap. Circa 1970/80s. The device is of a strange style resembling more a Victoria rather than Elizabeth crown. It also has both an integral cap band and an additional band??
    4. Early post 53 badged Canadian cap by Muir with QC device and brass buttons. Early style leather visor and chin strap. Circa 1940 to 60s. There is evidence of a regimental cap device under the badge which is quite correct as the visor embelishment is that of a FO up graded to acting Colonel or Brigadier. The style of visor would indicate a possible war or even pre war cap??
    5. Very early pre 53 badged cap by an unknown manufacturer with KC device and brass general service buttons. Early style leather visor and narrow chin strap. Circa 1920s or possibly earlier. The buttons are correct for a FO of the the Military Department of the Judge Advocate General as their original cap device was the GSC Royal Arms with the current badge and buttons being introduced post WWII. The visor embelishment is in accordance with the detail for cap Number 4. Quilted cap liners are usually associated with WWI and early made caps up to circa WWII.

  3. #53

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    Quote by Jerry B View Post
    Would it be possible to see the makers marks and the underside of these caps you have shown Michael? It would be good to see the evolution of the underside and the MM's with approximate dates if only from the cap badges/buttons as to pre or post 1953.

    With the added information this thread would be worthy of being pinned IMHO.
    I agree Jerry it should be a "sticky"!..
    It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.



    I'm Spartacus, not really i'm Paul!...

  4. #54

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    Hi All, A bit of information that may help anyone with an interest in this type of British Army headdress.

    1. Other than combat or working caps, Army caps fall into one of three basic styles, these are:

    a. Forage caps, AKA dress or parade caps. These are the caps worn on ceremonial parades and functions and with both the dress and Service Dress uniforms. These caps are coloured according to the traditions of the Corps, department or regiment which they represent and are usually similar for all ranks up to Lieutenant Colonel inclusive. They have three welts (lines of piping) located above and below the cap band and around the crown. Cavalry regiment often have additional piping segmenting the four panels which make up the underside of the cap crown.

    b. Service Dress caps. These are the standard karkhi caps worn usually by officers wearing Service Dress. However, they are not worn when an officer is marching with troops who are wearing Forage caps when the officer's Forage cap is to be worn.

    c. Field Service Caps AKA as side caps or chip bag hats. These are private purchase optional caps and again are worn in the traditional colours of the organisation to which the wearer belongs. The current FS cap is a derivitive of the earlier Karkhi side cap.

    There are numerous other items of headdress in the Army inventory including tent caps, berets, bonnets, tan o shanters and glengarries etc.

    2. The most often encountered cap is the Infantry (plus some Corps') cap for either "Royal or Non Royal regiments. These are:

    a. Royals, very dark blue cap with bright red cap band and welts.

    b. Non Royals. very dark blue cap and cap band with a single bright red welt around the crown of the cap.

    3. There are and have been far too many forage cap colour variations to list here but among the other caps that are regularly encountered are:

    a. Dark blue cap with scarlet band and welts (as for "Royals") and worn by:

    (1) Royal Artillery (RA).
    (2) Royal Army Ordnance Corps (RAOC).
    (3) Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers (REME).
    (4) Small Arms School Corps (SASC).
    (5) Royal Pioneer Corps (RPC).

    b. Dark blue cap, band and botom band welt. Scarlet welts around the crown and above the cap band and worn by:

    (1) Royal Engineers (RE). During pre WWII days, the band was of a lighter middle blue.
    (2) Military Provost Staff Corps (MPSC).

    c. Dark blue cap with black lace band and dark blue welts and worn by the Royal Signals (R Sigs).

    d. Dark blue cap and band with white welts and worn by the:

    (1) Gurkha Transport Regiment (GTR).
    (2) Royal Corps of Transport (RCT).

    e. Black cap and welts witha purple band and worn by the Royal Army Chaplains Department (RAChD).

    f. Dark blue cap with dull cherry welts and cap band and worn by the Royal Army Medical Corps (RAMC).

    g. Scarlet cap with dark blue cap band and band welts and a scarlet welt around the crown. Worn by the Royal Military Police (RMP).

    h. Dark blue cap and band with primrose yellow welts and worn by the Royal Army Pay Corps (RAPC).

    i. Dark blue cap with maroon welts and cap band and worn by the Royal Army Vetenary Corps (RAVC).

    j. Dark blue cap with Canbridge blue welts and cap band and worn by the Royal Army Education Corps (RAEC).

    k. Dark blue cap with emerald green welts and cap band and worn by the Royal Army Dental Corps (RADC).

    l. Dark blue cap with cypress green welts and cap band and worn by the Inteligence Corps (Int Corps).

    k. Dark blue cap with black lace band, dark blue band welts and a scarlet welt around the crown. Worn by the Army Physical Training Corps (APTC).

    l. Dark blue cap with grebe grey welts and cap band and worn by the Army Catering Corps (ACC).

    m. Dark blue cap with dark blue cap band bordered top and botton in scarlet and scarlet welts. Worn by the:

    (1) Army Legal Corps (ALC).
    (2) Army Legal Sevices (ALS).

    4. Although usually of higher quality and private purchase, Junior (or Company) Officers (JO) wear a cap very similar to Warrant Officers (WO) and Other Ranks (OR) with an un embelished visor or peak. The Household Division and certain other units vary in visor embelishment for most ranks.

    5. Field Officers (FO) wear a similar cap to JO's but with the visor embelished with a:

    a. Single gold embroidered band around the lower edge of the visor for most regimental and corps officers.

    b. Single silver embroidered band around the lower edge of the visor for Light Infantry (LI) officers.

    c. Black silk embroidered oak leaves around the lower edge of the visor for Rifles officers.

    6. Caps worn by Senior or Staff Officers (SO) follow a different pattern to those worn by officers lower than substantive Colonels. The cap is very dark blue with scarlet cap band and band welts. The crown welt is also dark blue. Additionally, the regimental cap badge is replaced by the Royal Crest (Crowned Lion over the Monarch's Crown) embroidered in gold wire and coloured silks. The visor is embelished with a single band of gold oak leaves around its lower edge and the regimental chin strap butons are replaced by SO buttons.

    7. Caps worn by General Officers (GO) are dark blue with scarlet cap band and band welts. The crown welt is also dark blue. Additionally, the Royal Crest is replaced by the GO's badge comprising the Royal Crest surmounting a crossed scimiter and baton which are enclosed within a laurel wreath all embroidered in gold wire and coloured silks. The visor is embelished with a double band of gold oak leaves around its lower edge and the SO chin strap butons are replaced by GO buttons.

    8. Caps worn by Field Marshals (FM) are dark blue with scarlet cap band and band welts. The crown welt is also dark blue. Additionally, the GO's badge is replaced by the FM's badge comprising the Royal Crest surmounting crossed batons which are enclosed within a laurel wreath all embroidered in gold wire and coloured silks. The visor is embelished with a double band of gold oak leaves around its lower edge and the GO chin strap butons are replaced by FM buttons.

    9. For GO and SO ranks of the RAMC, RADC and possibly the RAPC, all scarlet features of the caps at Paragrahs 6 and 7 are replaced by the Corps colours as detailed above. Additionally, Chaplains General and Chaplains of relevant ranks to SO's retain their black welts and purple bands.

    Right, that is enough thinking for today so I hope that you find this overview of use and of interest. There is a large number of other cap variations which will be encountered, some of which I will detail if there is any interest in this submission.

    Cheers and a Very Merry X Mass to all. Michael R

    PS, All errors, grammer and spelling mistakes are attributable to the woman next door wups, no I mean me!!

  5. #55

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    Hi Again, Hope you all had a good Christmas and that Santa was good to you!! Some dress caps to view but for a change, these are OR's rather than Officer's Hope you like them.
    Regards MR


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  6. #56

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    The caps are:

    1. Welsh Guards (WG) for the rank of Guardsman (Private). Current issue pattern.
    2. 17th Lancers (17L) circa late 1960/70's. Note imperial rather than metric size.
    3. 5th Dragoon Guards (5DG) dated 1962 and typical of the period. Note heavy duty sweat band in leather with detail stamped thereon.
    4. Light Infantry (LI) of current issue pattern and with the addition of the "back badge" attributable to the Goucester Regiment as an honour.
    5. Devonshire Regimant (DR) of probably pre war manufacture with a QC badge, leather sweat band and stamped manufacture detail but devoid of Goverment Issue stamps. I am not entirely certain that the badge is contemporary with the cap??

    Colourings:

    1. WG. Very dark blue cap and welts. Note no upper band welt. Blac and dark green alternating vertical striped cap band.
    2. 17L. Very dark blue cap with white cap band, crown welt and no band welts. The underside has four panels piped in white.
    3. 5DG. Green cap with off white cap band and crown welt. There are no band welts.
    4. LI. Very dark green cap with black mohair cap band and black welts to the crown and cap band.
    5. DR. Green cap with scarlet cap band and crown welt. There are no band welts.

  7. #57

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    Hi Again, A bit of a mix this time. hope you like them and that thay are usefull as a reference.

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  8. #58

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    The caps are:

    1. RAMC FO by Moss Bross circa 1970's QC.
    2. RAMC OR by Bloomfield?? possibly WWI. I am not sure if the "WD 17" is a War Department inspection number or if it refers to the year 1917. In any event, the style and construction are very early.
    3. Honourable Artillery Company (HAC) OR by J Compton Sons and Webb and named to a Bandsman. The cap is dated 1964 and its construction is typical for an OR's cap of that period.
    4. HAC OR's cap of far earlier period but missing its sweat band. There are no details on the linning so without the band, it is not possible to ID or date pecisely. It possibly dates to WWI but I would guess, by its construction, probably 1920/30's??
    5. RAVC OR's cap dated 2005. Interesting in that the cap has an officer's pattern chin strap rather than the standard OR pattern. There are 2 reasonable possibilities for this. The chin strap has been replaced by a dealer or collector as the original was missing? Alternatively, WO's Class 1 are authorised to wear certain officer pattern accoutrements and uniform items. I am of the opinion that this cap was worn by a WO 1 in lieu of an officer's pattern cap? What do you think?? Unfortunately, the cap is niether named or ranked.
    6. North Irish Horse (NIH) OR's cap by hobson and Son but not dated. Judging by the style, NATO Reference Number and contract detail I would be inclined to date the cap to the 1990's or there about.
    7. The Queen's Royal Hussars (QRH). The cap is by Tower Uniform Headdress and named to a Corporal of C Squadron. It probably dates to the 1990's.
    8. Home Counties Brigade (HCB) FO's cap by Herbery Johnson whos logo includes "by appointment to the late King George VI". The cap probably dates to the mid 1950's?.

    Colourings:

    1. RAMC. Very dark blue cap with dull cherry cap band and welts. There is no lower band welt.
    2. RAMC. Very dark blue cap with dull cherry cap band and crown welt. There are no band welts.
    3. HAC. Very dark blue cap and cap band. The band has scarlet uper and lower edging and a scarlet welt aroun the crown. There are no band welts.
    4. HAC. As for cap 3. note, the chin strap buttons are of RN/RAF cloth covered pattern rather than brass. Possibly a later addition?
    5. RAVC. Very dark blue cap with maroon cap band and crown welt. There are no band welts.
    6. NIH. Very dark green
    7. QRH. Scarlet cap, cap band, lower band welt and crown welt. There is no upper band welt.
    8. HCB. Very dark blue cap with scarlet cap band, upper band welt and crown welt. There is no lower band welt.

    Cheers MR

  9. #59

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    Here is mine... British Parachute Regiment.
    I wore this beret for nearly 10 years 1974 -83, without anyone noting including me, that my metal badge was in fact a Kings crown instead of the Queens crown it should have been!

  10. #60

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    Hi, In order to add a touch of variety and to suplement Tango's excellent berets shown earlier in this thread, I thought it would be appropriate to add a few of my British Army berets for view and comment. Hope that they are of interest. Cheers michael Ryan.


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