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Royal Art'y & other Service Dress caps

Article about: Hi again, A few more of various time periods. Hope they are of interest. Cheers MR

  1. #1

    Default Royal Art'y & other Service Dress caps

    Hello all! First post here and glad to be a part of the forum. Showing what I feel is a very fine early style, stiff cap in lovely condition. Made by Fisher's Military Outfitters, Woolwich. Barathea wool exterior with no moth nips and a supple sweatband showing light wear. RA badge is affixed by 2 sharp prongs that pierce the band. Do you fellows think it is indeed WWI or might it be post war era? Appreciate any insights or commentary, thank you!

    Nigel

    SADLY THE MEMBER DELETED HIS PICS AFTER THROWING HIS TOYS IN ANOTHER THREAD
    Last edited by Jerry B; 10-17-2014 at 01:53 PM.

  2. #2

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    Actually post WW 2 the address indicates one of the later incarnations of Fishers at only 88, this cap likely dates from about 1952. 1954 | 2557 | Flight Archive

  3. #3

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    Certainly not WWI with that width of chinstrap. Nice cap though. I always assumed the green underside to the peak was phased out in the early part of WWII on this type of cap.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  4. #4

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    That is the thick chinstrap.

    I don't know the history of the maker but I would have said late 30's to early 40's.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  5. #5

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    Mind you, looking at the 8 SD caps I own, one has a very thin chinstrap, two appear to be the same as this one, one is a little bit thicker and the others are thicker again.
    Last edited by Jerry B; 12-09-2013 at 09:46 PM.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  6. #6

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    Hi Nigel, Welcome to the forum. You have a very nice pre 1953 SD Cap in beautiful condition. A cap to be proud of!! Are you into caps or is this a representative item? One thing you will find on this forum is that there are some very knowledgeable members and unfortunately, you may not always get the answer you expected but you can almost certainly guarantee that the answer will be accurate. These people know their stuff!!
    Welcome once again. Cheers Michael Ryan

  7. #7

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    The thin one I have is 3/8ths, the late 30's/early 40's is 1/2inch, also have 9/16ths and 11 16ths on a WWII example. So the width of yours matches the example I have with a green underside to the peak and which IMHO is dated to the late 30's or early 40's. If you can supply evidence to confirm yours is WWI, that would be great because mine would be as well, though sadly I doubt you will be able to.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  8. #8

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    Straps are not a totally reliable indicator, yes typically WW I era caps have a thinner strap - but not always and as indicated above lengths vary widely, plus they are easily replaced moved at later times etc. Many people place thinner straps on newer caps to try and make them WW I appearing, and there are many repro's for re-encators floating around too. Bit of a collector myth associated with this determiner, much like 'black light' There is some evidence thicker straps were worn in WW I - these were all private purchase and there were guidelines for styles but ultimately it was up to an officer to determine his preferences. Also, the green under brim was used widely and indiscriminately from the 1920-the 1960's, but more commonly on Senior NCO's caps versus officers, but they do turn up - again, all down to preferences and price. you are still looking at 60 year old celluloid even in a 50's vintage cap, depending on how it was stored they get brittle very easily.

    The known dates of the address for that maker are also a strong indicator of the era of manufacturer, a more thorough search on the business registers will tell you the earliest date they were at that address, but I couldn't find any that appeared before the 1950's.

    What is most telling to me that speaks for post WW II is the dye and nap and quality of the wool, when you compare this to earlier versions this is a much smoother and more modern looking blend versus the slightly softer and 'hairier' thicker types of wool found in earlier caps. The label is not typical of a pre 1945 style either. I have a Canadian Artillery officers cap form the late 50's at home that is very close to this one I'll post later.

  9. #9

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    Hi, In my last communication, I stated that you have a nice pre 1953 cap. I read with interest what was said by a fellow member re the manufacturer and his incarnations. Whilst I can not argue with his comments concerning the maker, I would suggest that your cap is pre 1945 rather than post as it has all the hall marks of a thirty's made cap. I have posted two of my caps for comparison, both of which I beleive to be pre WWII examples.

    The first four photos are of a cap belonging to an officer of the Queen Mary's Regiment Surrey Yeomanry. The cap is very similar in manuacture, materiel and over all look to your RA Cap. The last three photos are of a Lincolonshire officer's cap but of totally different characteristics being made of fur felt. I have included both to give an idea of the relatively vast variations encountered in British Army officer's SD Caps.

    I Hope that this is of both interest to you and also informative.

    Regards and best wishes Michael Ryan.




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  10. #10

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    Here is my example that I would date to the late 30's or possibly early 40's but no later. It came without a badge so the RF is just on it for display.
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    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

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