Artillery Officers Visor

[Alex5k]

Hey Everyone,

I've been looking around for my first visor as i would like to branch out from helmets and get into cloth headgear as well. I came across this one and I love the shape and bullion insignia it has.

forgive me, as i know very little about visors. My question is about the shape of this cap, is it damaged? or was it like this in the period? I have seen many photos of visors with the spring removed and they look very similar to how this one looks. Almost like a crusher.

Sorry about the photos the site does not let me save them.

Thanks for the help!

[MAP]

Great looking visor and looks good to me. And from a good dealer

That said...I have questions for those who know these better than I.

In my limited experience with visors, I do not think I have ever seen an officers version "unit marked". Uncommon but acceptable? Maybe upgraded?

Looks like an enlisted "contract visor" with upgraded Bullion insignia and Officer chincords/studs? Or maybe an officers Kleiderkasse purchase (which I thought would be of higher quality)?

Also, I see the impression on the inside front sweatband of a split pin...but I would have thought the bullion wreath would not be attached that way, thus indicating replaced insignia. Lastly, chincord studs normally attached with splitpins as seen in the photo? All of this however appears to have period age to it and not recent

Again....just trying to understand myself here.

[Alex5k]

Great looking visor and looks good to me. And from a good dealer

That said...I have question for those who know these better than I.

In my limited experience with visors, I do not think I have ever seen an officers version "unit marked". Uncommon but acceptable? Maybe upgraded?

Looks like a "contract visor" with upgraded Bullion insignia? Maybe a Kleiderkasse purchase?

Thanks MAP, I think you're right. I should have added this. the description of the visor says it is a pre war quality cap upgraded with bullion insignia made with issue trikot wool.

[MAP]

Thanks MAP, I think you're right. I should have added this. the description of the visor says it is a pre war quality cap upgraded with bullion insignia made with issue trikot wool.

Thanks! I just added/edited some addition commentary to my original post as I studied it more that jives with the sellers description. My edits overlapped with your reply.

I like it! It really adds to its history

M

[ErWeSa]

Nice, original early Welhausen cap originally made for EM/NCO, obviously upgraded (when is the big question pre or post 45?).

To the shape: there were many soldiers who punched their caps against regulations by taking it off/putting it on like a hat taking it with two fingers at the crown.

The silvery buttons also seem to have been added later - I think I can see the stitching holes of the original ones next to the hole of the officer's ones.

[TWS]

Agree with MAP and ErWeSa. Originally an enlisted issue contract cap upgraded later to officer. The basic cap itself is original and the upgraded parts would have to be carefully scrutinized to arrive at what level of comfort you have in when it was upgraded.

I have such a cap in my collection myself that I am very comfortable with. It has heavy wear to it and the officer insignia also has heavy matching wear, natural matching soiling, etc. It also helps that I purchased the cap in the 80's and knew who had it for a good number of years even prior to my purchase. (But of course the "forensic" examination is more important).

[MarcoPennisi]

Ascertaining who applied the officers' insignia and when is quite a challenging affair, however they look consistent. May I remind that NCOs qualifying as senior officer candidates were permitted officers'accessories and this might be the case.

[MAP]

Ascertaining who applied the officers' insignia and when is quite a challenging affair, however they look consistent. May I remind that NCOs qualifying as senior officer candidates were permitted officers'accessories and this might be the case.

Agree. It is difficult to be certain.

For all: If you look closely at the split pins inside the visor, you can see old/aged wear around the hole as well as the edges of the split pin digging into the liner. Further the pins themselves have age appropriate patina / verdigris. To me a sure sign that these changes were done a very long time ago.

[Alex5k]

Thanks for all the help and comments everyone, I prefer to be 100% certain everything was applied pre 1945, just for my sanity. Ill probably just keep looking around till i can find something I like.

Again thank you, this thread has been very informative. These visors have a lot going on, confusing at first.

If anyone is interested in the cap it is on virtualgrenadier

Alex

[MAP]

Thanks for all the help and comments everyone, I prefer to be 100% certain everything was applied pre 1945, just for my sanity. Ill probably just keep looking around till i can find something I like.

Again thank you, this thread has been very informative. These visors have a lot going on, confusing at first.

If anyone is interested in the cap it is on virtualgrenadier

Alex

I see no red flags to suggest this was done post war, but obviously nothing can be guaranteed.