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Black Cap for Identification

Article about: I have some number of these, bought a few years back when they were the rage. I am in poverty as a result. Opinions appreciated on the authenticity of this pitched visor, and anyone who can

  1. #11

    Default Re: Black Cap for Identification

    I have downloaded nearly every image of black SS regalia in the past decade, and I suppose one can generalize about who made what and where from these images, but you, Bruce, own this cap from a Thueringian maker, which I have not seen heretofore, which proves my point about the limits of our knowledge. W/o our Canadian colleague, I would not have known same.

    The question is: where in the VA SS files are the contracts to make these caps?; how were they carried out?: why some makers and not others? et cetera.

    I think the maker mania is besides the point, in fact. Certain firms are more frequently found than others, but is that a fluke? Is that an accident of geography or does such have real historical meaning? I.e. that the Nazi favored one and not the other; or because of geography (i.e. West Germany versus East Germany) one sees certain things that were not true of Greater Germany as a whole?

    Look at the nice panzer cap elsewhere with the direct embroidered wreath and the leather peak. Such a cap is vastly nicer than many of these contract made caps of the later period, i.e. after about 1936 or 1939, if the Saris nomenclature is to be believed. Yet said cap has no maker visible, unless someone has supernatural powers to revive the dead.

    I am personally especially fond of the earlier species of black SS peaked cap of the era say 1933/4 until 1936....

    Thanks, Bruce, for posting your nice things here.
    damit, basta.

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  3. #12
    ?

    Default Re: Black Cap for Identification

    F-B and d'alquen -

    Thanks to both of you for this information.

    If my file photos are in order, you are correct that this Wille cap does not have an RZM stamp under the visor. I am certain I have another which I will check.

    Of interest, the TK uniform associated with the A1/15 cap mentioned just prior by F-B (from a Theuringian maker) is in fact an Oberbayern get-up.

  4. #13

    Default Re: Black Cap for Identification

    For those unschooled in German geography, Thueringen borders on Bavaria....that is, on Franken. The former also borders on Hessen, too.

    Who knows why a cap made in Thueringen is with said uniform or a cap made in Lower Saxony or whatever?

    The only criterion is authenticity, and I repeat: maker mania is a more or less false category invented by some to make anachronism more important than it really is, in fact. I find it akin to the mania of wine lovers to ascribe the most outlandish adverbs and adjectives or nouns to the taste of wine, in fact. Such is much a part of our odd era. As if wine tastes like pineapple, and a certain cap maker is "rare" or "the highest quality" because someone says it is so from the remove of seventy years. Es ist ja Quatsch.

    Thanks, Bruce, for sharing your things from your fine collection.

    I also imagine that said cap with the tall crown was made in 1939 or even in 1940. There are a number of extant Wille caps of this type with 1940 marks on the sweat band from maker of same, too.
    damit, basta.

  5. #14

    Default Re: Black Cap for Identification

    "I ask how you came to know this datum".

    The answer is a reasonably extensive filing system. Plus, in years past, trips to a multitude of shows. And finally, the fact that the regalia of this particular organisation has been an interest of mine for longer than I care to remember.
    D'Alquen
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  6. #15
    ?

    Default Re: Black Cap for Identification

    d'alquen -

    Quite remarkable, and thanks.

    F-B:

    You are correct; my file notes on the Wille cap indicate that there are 6(?) nearly illegible stamp marks on the underside of the sweatband, but clearly the last two are "40".

  7. #16

    Default Re: Black Cap for Identification

    Quote by d'alquen View Post
    "I ask how you came to know this datum".

    The answer is a reasonably extensive filing system. Plus, in years past, trips to a multitude of shows. And finally, the fact that the regalia of this particular organisation has been an interest of mine for longer than I care to remember.
    D'Alquen

    One day you really must offer your readers here the sum of your research between two covers. Especially because the new Schiffer picture book is far from the last word on this regalia, in particular as concerns earlier caps. We admire your research and admonish others to understand the central importance of same for making sense of what in the medium of the internet is an ever more confusing subject.
    damit, basta.

  8. #17

    Default Re: Black Cap for Identification

    Quote by Frog View Post
    d'alquen -

    Quite remarkable, and thanks.

    F-B:

    You are correct; my file notes on the Wille cap indicate that there are 6(?) nearly illegible stamp marks on the underside of the sweatband, but clearly the last two are "40".
    I think many of these caps were made in the final phase of things and then kept at hand for victory or the further expansion of the Allgemeine SS. The latter gained many new units in the course of conquest in the period 1939-1940, even not at full strength.
    damit, basta.

  9. #18
    ?

    Default Re: Black Cap for Identification

    And many of these, along with their woolens, went into storage as the clouds gathered over Europe in this era and the gray uniform emerged.

    For this we should be thankful --that is, the safeguarding, not the clouds.

  10. #19

    Default Re: Black Cap for Identification

    Quote by Frog View Post
    And many of these, along with their woolens, went into storage as the clouds gathered over Europe in this era and the gray uniform emerged.

    For this we should be thankful --that is, the safeguarding, not the clouds.
    How a piece has endured from its manufacture to now interests me a lot. Hence, we had best know the organizational history of the SS in its totality and not merely remain focused on the handful of Ritterkreuztraeger and Panzer aces of Normandy as is usually the case here. The latter reveals the enduring power of Nazi propaganda from the grave and its stranglehold over the present.

    All the more reason to be grateful to Mr. d'Alquen for his shelves of careful research. Had I the time, and were not always chasing rabbits down holes on two continents, I would happily emulate his fine example. I have lost my patience with microform readers a long time ago, sadly. There was a time I had the patience, but now that I own a blackberry, I think my capacity to do real historical research has shrunk to nothing.
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    damit, basta.

  11. #20
    ?

    Default Re: Black Cap for Identification

    I am sure M. d'alquen, with his evident knowledge, has many fine things, and I hope he will share them with us at some point.

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