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First Heer Schirmütze

Article about: by HistoryIsMe I dont have a visor cap, as much as I love them they are just so expensive for a nice one. Though I thoroughly enjoy looking at everyone's Caps and mabey one day soon I will f

  1. #111

    Default re: First Heer Schirmütze

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ID:	277314You may use what I say however you wish.
    I, for one, bought more than one fake cap badge in my time, but I find some of the experts who generalize about same to be confidence artists, since there is apparently little primary sources on same.
    The fakes were not very good in 1968, so I gradually saw more real material, and learned the difference from the fakes and authentic pieces.
    In 1969, an acquaintance of mine published a pamphlet on fakes which was a start, but it concerned itself mostly with orders and decorations as well as daggers.
    The fake caps of the era were usually identical to 1960s West German caps, and were made with less handicraft and a lot of plastic.
    If any thing, the plastic was the give away, but there were also many caps then that today pass as real, which were made of real fabric by the cap makers of the era as they existed then.
    I can still tell them when I see them, but others cannot. Fakes today are much more refined and perfected, of course.
    Also, authentic material was plentiful and not very expensive compared to today.
    But there was surely not anywhere near the level of easily had knowledge as exists today. Not in the slightest. We were thrown back on our own wits, and the need to learn from the actual sources of the era, usually original pictorial works, as included here. I collected a large library of III. Reich books of the era and still do.
    damit, basta.

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  3. #112

    Default re: First Heer Schirmütze

    Quote by HistoryIsMe View Post
    Attachment 277275Attachment 277276Attachment 277277

    I am sure this thread has answerd alot of questions and has been to good use. and I am sorry if I have chnaged the subject while everyone should be focusing on Craigs Cap.




    cheers,
    Patrick

    Bravo und weiter so! Click image for larger version. 

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    damit, basta.

  4. #113

    Default re: First Heer Schirmütze

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Bravo und weiter so!
    Danke Friedrich,
    Pat

  5. #114
    KSH
    KSH is offline
    ?

    Default re: First Heer Schirmütze

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Attachment 277243Attachment 277244Attachment 277245Attachment 277242Attachment 277241For those of you familiar with German military thought and practice, you will recall the phrase from Truppenfuehrung as written by Ludwig Beck that is taken from Clausewitz and also from Moltke. I am sure my colleague in Norway can find it for us, since it is among the first pages of the service regulation of 1933. Perhaps it should be placed here to describe how I see what I do and what others seek and find here.
    Sadly, I cannot strain myself to think of exactly which phrase included in the beginning of the Truppenführung you are speaking about, F-B - the influence of von Clausewitz is really everywhere in this work. I shall here post the English translation (I prefer myself of course the original German - but these points should be read by everyone here) of these introductory and infinitely insightful phrases from the work in question which include some points more relevant to us and some not quite so relevant - all points are truly significant as regarding conduct of war.

    First page of Introduction:

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    Here is an English translation of one of my favorite quotes from von Clausewitz, very fitting for us I believe:



    "I shall proceed from the simple to the complex. But in war more than in any other subject we must begin by looking at the nature of the whole; for here more than elsewhere the part and the whole must always be thought of together."



    Hochachtungsvoll,

    Kenneth S-H.

  6. #115

    Default re: First Heer Schirmütze

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Attachment 277274Attachment 277269Attachment 277270Scenes of the Hauptbahnhof in Muenchen, which I love very much.
    Not been there since 86, but spent many an hour there when living in Munich for a couple of months, a lovely city full of many museums as I recall, which were free entry on Sundays.

    Also did a few days work near Dachau for BMW.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  7. #116

    Default re: First Heer Schirmütze

    Quote by KSH View Post
    Sadly, I cannot strain myself to think of exactly which phrase included in the beginning of the Truppenführung you are speaking about, F-B - the influence of von Clausewitz is really everywhere in this work. I shall here post the English translation (I prefer myself of course the original German - but these points should be read by everyone here) of these introductory and infinitely insightful phrases from the work in question which include some points more relevant to us and some not quite so relevant - all points are truly significant as regarding conduct of war.

    First page of Introduction:

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    Second page of Introduction:

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    Here is an English translation of one of my favorite quotes from von Clausewitz, very fitting for us I believe:



    "I shall proceed from the simple to the complex. But in war more than in any other subject we must begin by looking at the nature of the whole; for here more than elsewhere the part and the whole must always be thought of together."



    Hochachtungsvoll,

    Kenneth S-H.
    Well done and thank you. I had in the mind the opening paragraph, but the whole thing is worthy of reflection, especially among persons unfamiliar with the real essence and character of the German military, or any military really. Rather, all they know is corporate culture, the cult of management and celebrity with impoverishment as it exists today and the dreary world of the present. Thank you.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 12-12-2011 at 01:27 PM.
    damit, basta.

  8. #117

    Default re: First Heer Schirmütze

    Quote by Bond View Post
    Not been there since 86, but spent many an hour there when living in Munich for a couple of months, a lovely city full of many museums as I recall, which were free entry on Sundays.

    Also did a few days work near Dachau for BMW.
    Good for you. The caps I pictured were both made in Munich.
    damit, basta.

  9. #118

    Default re: First Heer Schirmütze

    Quote by KSH View Post
    Well, Jerry, no disrespect intended - I find these threads that we create from time to time in the Cloth Headgear forum (like this particular one) to be of transcendent merit and to be honest a fresh breath on this forum all too often bogged down by threads like this:

    Start of thread example
    Member1: "here is my new item" (ready to be praised on autopilot of course).
    Member2: Nice item, congrats!
    Member3: "well done"!
    Member4: "Very nice"!
    Member1: "thank you guys" (now member1 has filled his emotionally necessary "praise-quota" for this time at least).
    End of thread

    If the above thread example is not ridiculous, then what is? We have all done it (me included) many times and surely will do it again. But what makes it worth it in the end for me is the kind of thread that I am now writing these words within.

    Hochachtungsvoll,

    Kenneth S-H.
    As you say, we have all done the above. I was only trying to join in on the quoting of military personages of note, as Napoleon is said to have used the phrase with regards to the retreat from Moscow. 'From the sublime to the ridiculous there is only one step'
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  10. #119

    Default re: First Heer Schirmütze

    This forum is not nearly as formulaic and brain dead in its general character as the maroon one, where group think and an odd hierarchy reigns.
    It is not for nothing that the place earned the name "Lord of the Flies" in honor of William Golding, nicht wahr?
    Thanks for the Napoleon quote. Thanks for your contribution.
    Ben knows that I swerve very wide of the mark, but the point here is the first sentence of Beck, as concerns art, and a free, creative activity.
    Truth be said, the source of my anger with many sites has been the cult of the check list, the propagation of a false doctrine via a handful of false prophets therein, and the catechism as well as prayer like recitals of praise as well as revival meeting outbursts of hate and rage that constitute the norm.
    We have a collection of individuals here, and there is little harm in their showing their personality, even when it is eccentric or deviates from some artificial and crushing norm.Click image for larger version. 

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    damit, basta.

  11. #120
    KSH
    KSH is offline
    ?

    Default re: First Heer Schirmütze

    Quote by Bond View Post
    As you say, we have all done the above. I was only trying to join in on the quoting of military personages of note, as Napoleon is said to have used the phrase with regards to the retreat from Moscow. 'From the sublime to the ridiculous there is only one step'
    Surely you were also paraphrasing this quote in conjunction with your observation that the thread was off topic, thus making said quote part of your argumentation to such an effect? If not so, I apologize for my misperception of your intentions.

    Hochachtungsvoll,

    Kenneth S-H.

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