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Grey SS Cap for SS Gentleman in Asia

Article about: Another observation. Black caps of the pre-war years always seemed to have been issued with Deschler TK's and most often of the cupal variety. Rarely do you see them with any other maker of

  1. #11

    Default Re: Grey SS Cap for SS Gentleman in Asia

    Quote by friedrich-berthold View Post
    further, i think the grey caps that came from the ss kleiderkasse tended to have a custard yellow, grey or lime green lining...and maybe other normal colors, too, surely. I can also recall one with a brown cotton ish lining that i owned in 1971 and stupidly sold for far too little money....

    Happy collecting....

    An example of the yellow lining found on what is likely a mid war cap. This piece also has RZM buttons. They are sewn quite tight to the hat so seeing the date is impossible. This cap was found in Austria in the mid
    80's along with an identical example that still bore the DM price tag.. They were discovered along with a tunic, breeches and mantel that had been the property of a Totenkopf Sturmfuhrer. The items bore little wear and likely were a home leave uniform that belonged to a young officer who fell in the Eastern battles.

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    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Grey SS Cap for SS Gentleman in Asia

    Apropos of textiles and regulations and those who while away their time in You Tube, there is an interesting deutsche Wochenschau of October 1940 in which pride of place is given to how the German occupiers in France are busily scouring the clothing warehouses of the French army for usable material to be sent to the Reich. Such was a major part of German policy and war economy, i.e. the wholesale plunder of occupied Europe as well as the seizure of Jewish property in the Reich itself. In fact, much of the news reel shows the Germans happily recycling everything of possible value left behind in the junk heaps of the BEF and the French Army. It is even heartwarming to see nothing go to waste, especially with the mania for recycling in Germany today.

    But my point: I imagine that once textiles became scarce enough (and such was even the case before the war started because of the Six Year Plan and problems of hard currency...) then one used whatever one could to cover requirements. Hence, I do not want to propagate the idea that there was one, ideal kind of fabric. Rather, I think especially in headwear, one sees from a fairly early date a cheapening of materials and the rise of Ersatz (or its revival) to accommodate the war economy even in what some would deem to have been peace. See how leather peaks are forbidden when these were used in NSDAP (...SS headwear) when the PL and SS were smaller organizations.

    Happy collecting and even happier headwear.
    damit, basta.

  4. #13

    Default Re: Grey SS Cap for SS Gentleman in Asia

    Quote by BOB COLEMAN View Post
    An example of the yellow lining found on what is likely a mid war cap. This piece also has RZM buttons. They are sewn quite tight to the hat so seeing the date is impossible. This cap was found in Austria in the mid
    80's along with an identical example that still bore the DM price tag.. They were discovered along with a tunic, breeches and mantel that had been the property of a Totenkopf Sturmfuhrer. The items bore little wear and likely were a home leave uniform that belonged to a young officer who fell in the Eastern battles.
    Thank you, dear Bob, for the illustration of my point. A very handsome piece. Here is a twin of yours in the hands of a leading collector in the Great Northwest.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    damit, basta.

  5. #14

    Default Re: Grey SS Cap for SS Gentleman in Asia

    Herr Berthold-
    The caps are certainly contemporary. I note that the cap you posted is made from your typical tricot while my cap is fabricated from material recently referred to as "Italian gabardine." Many officer feldmutze fabricated of this material have appeared on the collecting scene in recent years. In the case of those caps, I have my doubts.
    BOB

    LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.

  6. #15

    Default Re: Grey SS Cap for SS Gentleman in Asia

    Thanks for yours. There are several other examples of later made peaked caps with the so called Italian textile. I should even imagine that the Germans made use of Italian textiles of whatever kind even before the end of the Duce regime in 1943, granted the organization of the German dominated continental economy in the years 1938-1943.
    damit, basta.

  7. #16

    Default Re: Grey SS Cap for SS Gentleman in Asia

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Thanks for the mis placed praise. I think the lining is actually rayon, or deutsche Zellwolle or the like. Whatever, it is the twin to the cap on the cover of the Wilkins book. Wilkins and Shea describe it with the very odd phrase "textbook," an assertion I would dispute, actually. Whatever it is, the buttons are also RZM/SS marked to the year 1942. I think this cap was made by the Saxon or Silesian maker in Glachau, but that is a wild guess.
    Hritz also has a hat very similar to this one. I assume these all came from the Kleiderkasse SS in the 1st half of the war, but that is a wild guess, too.

    The sweat band is identical to a sweat band found in late made black SS enlisted caps for extra wear, which some Internet lions have derided as fake. This fragile band rips when you just look at it. As ever, collectors in search of the rosetta strone under the sweat band do huge devastation to these things.

    Happy collecting. For the record. I disbelieve in the phrase "text book" I rather think that the cap maker lined the caps with the material they had, and as the war dragged on, they had ever less material and used what was at hand. One does well to delve into the Herstellungsvorschriften der RZM to see what was regulation, i.e. nach Vorschrift. But I look in vain for a "text book" of SS caps and encourage others to produce such a document for our enlightenment.

    The only one here who remotely aids us in this search is colleague d'Alquen, and one would be surprised by the general nature of some of the directives that governed this material.

    Hail headwear.

    Happy collecting.
    F-B: Do you mean Felix Weissbach of Glauchau, RZM # 27? A most prolific maker of Party visors--NSDAP, SS, DAF, HJ, etc. A quality product, but sadly, unrecognized and under-appreciated compared to the Berlin makers.

    BTW, most SS Kleiderkasse visors were made by Clemens Wagner--Herr Coleman's being a "textbook" example.

  8. #17

    Default Re: Grey SS Cap for SS Gentleman in Asia

    Dear Sir, yes that was the name that eludes me. I believe it was A1/27 or something similar as you write here. Wilkins says they went out of business at an early date, but there are many caps of this maker from what seems a later date. Thank you for the post. What I am certain is the sweat bands in two or more caps I have examined have a particular weakness prone to rips and tears, but such is impressionistic.

    I agree with you that there were many cap makers, whose products are interesting and noteworthy, but were located elsewhere than in the vicinity of Alexanderplatz in Berlin.

    Here is a Wagner black cap for officers ca. 1939. Whether it was retailed by the SS Kleiderkasse or not, I cannot say. It might have also come from a brauner Laden or the RZM itself. After a certain date, as you are aware, the entry on the RZM tag for Vetriebstelle was abandoned.

    Mr. Coleman's cap seems to be like several others that have endured in the realm of these internet images. Did Clemens Wagner stop putting sweat shields in their other caps ca. 1942 or so as an economy measure?
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    damit, basta.

  9. #18

    Default Re: Grey SS Cap for SS Gentleman in Asia

    The image of the RZM tag above is faint, but there "4" is there all the same.

    Happy headwear.
    damit, basta.

  10. #19
    ?

    Default Re: Grey SS Cap for SS Gentleman in Asia

    an enlightening and agreeable thread. thanks to all.

  11. #20

    Default Re: Grey SS Cap for SS Gentleman in Asia

    Quote by vady View Post
    an enlightening and agreeable thread. thanks to all.

    Thank you. I would note that the Collector Guild website has an astonishing cap on its update.

    There is also a 08/15 grey officer's cap in nice shape there, too, at a staggering price.

    However, the real kicker is the summer high leader's cap for the SS.
    Its price is more than astonishing.

    Happy collecting.
    damit, basta.

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